Win Today
Win Today is a performance enhancing podcast filled with actionable insights and inspiration to come out on top in life. Through captivating interviews and solo episodes, a powerful tool is created and given to listeners to be able to push through any situation in life.
Hosted by Ryan Cass, he delivers messages that align to his purpose of helping people establish a foundation for sustained success, break trends of adversity, and chart desirable courses for life. Win Today!
Win Today
#205 | Stay Off The "What-If" Bus | Mastering Mental Performance In Sports Ft. Dr. Hillary Cauthen
Dr. Hilary Cauthen, a clinical sports psychologist for Olympians and elite athletes, shares how fear of failure and evaluation often block peak performance—and how to reframe those fears for growth. In this episode, she reveals how shifting from “avoid failure” to “pursue success” unlocks freedom, focus, and motivation. We also explore how high standards and emotional authenticity can coexist in elite sport, and why trauma can serve as a hidden source of strength when properly integrated. Dr. Cauthen's simple "five minute mind" practice proves that mental mastery starts with stillness, not struggle.
3 Key Takeaways:
- Reframing fear unlocks performance breakthroughs.
- Vulnerability and excellence are not opposites.
- Mental fitness is daily maintenance, not a crisis response.
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He gave me a book to read and then he also told me at the end of the day, you're gonna graduate and you're gonna get on the bus. You're gonna get on the bus that you know, you're gonna graduate here and you have to decide did you get on the bus that made it or did you get on the what if bus he goes? Only you can decide what bus you get on, but you have to decide what bus that's gonna be. And it then flipped everything on it. So much more control of my actions and my behaviors, of what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1:And I was getting in my own way because I was blaming everyone else. The environment, my coach didn't like me. This was happening. It wasn't good enough that he. He challenged me and said look, you're going to get out of here. Just which bus are you going to get on? And only you can answer that. And it's been something I tell all my athletes Um, I, I got little buses that I give them for transitional objects and it's been a really powerful tool. Do I want to be on a bus that made it and I get to define what making it looks like, or do I want to be on a what-if bus?
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Wednesday Podcast, a weekly resource thoughtfully crafted to help people build and refine discipline, accomplish their goals, fortify their mindsets and be of service to somebody in this world. My name is Ryan Cass and I am your host, and it is my mission and commitment to deliver amazing episodes to you every week where you'll learn from myself or a renowned expert in their field. We love helping people win in every aspect of their lives, and you can help us win by sharing the show with somebody that you believe will benefit from it, subscribing and leaving a rating and review. We believe that everybody in this world is meant to do something great with their lives and we're here to help play a role in that. Thank you for tuning in and let's win today.
Speaker 2:Today's guest is someone whose work sits at the intersection of elite performance, mental resilience and human potential. Dr Hilary Cawthon is a licensed clinical sports psychologist and the founder of Texas Optimal Performance and Psychological Services. She has worked with Olympians, professional athletes and high performers across the globe. She helps people strengthen their minds the same way that they train their bodies, through intentional repetition, clarity of purpose and deep self-awareness. Dr Cawthon, it's an honor to have you on the show today. Welcome aboard.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. What an intro. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of cool things that we can read about you and we'll certainly get into. But before we do that and get into all the amazing things that a Google search would yield, what do you believe is the most important thing for the world to know about you?
Speaker 1:Definitely. Well, there's a lot One. I am a mom of four amazing, beautiful little humans. My daughters are probably the central essence of my heart. You know I have a tattoo on my arm that says my heart is your heart. Your heart is my heart, because the first sound they ever heard is my heart. Um, because the first sound they ever heard was my heartbeat and the first time I ever heard of them was their heartbeat. And so being a mom is probably the best gift I've ever been given. So raising my four daughters and having the opportunity to empower them as a female leader in the space that I am and the work that I do is a really fun, uh, beautiful thing about me, um, on top of and the work that I do is a really fun, beautiful thing about me On top of, I'm a very large sneakerhead and always have amazing shoes and talk about shoes all the time. So those are the two other things that are probably about me.
Speaker 2:What are you rocking right now?
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, I'm so glad you asked. They're the Adidas new shoe that they partnered with a hidden opponent and they're their mental health shoe and they are amazing. They have little serotonin molecules on the Adidas stripes. They have the mental health green ribbon on the back of the tag. So it's my essence to mental health and athletics combination. So if you're a big mental health advocate, check out the Adidas hidden opponent brand. It's called growing together with the shoes that they have.
Speaker 2:Wow, look at that Learned something really cool today and something that I could share with my fellow sneakerhead friends.
Speaker 2:But, going back, what I appreciate most that you mentioned is that, in addition to all of the amazing things that we know you for, that are on the paper, you mentioned that the most important thing is something that may not be at the top of a Google search, but more so that you have four amazing, beautiful girls, and it always strikes a special chord for me to hear from people like you that are highly regarded and have certainly influenced people all over the globe. To come back to that as the most important thing and I believe that really speaks to your character, who you are, your amazing heart, and you're the type of person that I love to create these conversations with, because it just makes it that much more meaningful and allows us to connect on a much deeper level. So I appreciate how you serve the world and your family. How would you describe the problem set that you solve for the people that you get to work with and high performing athletes and folks that have that have competed literally at the highest echelon of sport in the Olympics?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I always say that I have the pleasure of working on this continuum of care model right, and I treat the person within the player and at the true essence of it, whether they're a five year old or an or an eight-year-old when I get the pleasure of doing some group work with these little kids, or they're at the highest level, 28-year-old peak professional to even a 55-year-old professional pickleball player that I might work with, right. It all boils down to two main components that my athletes get stuck on, and it's usually fear of failure or fear of evaluation. You know they're at this point and they're playing good enough and they're great compared to other people. But in the high athletic world, high performing world, where they're at, they're good and they're trying to find this breakthrough of how can I be great?
Speaker 1:And oftentimes I say, ok, well, are you looking to how not to fail? Are you looking to the fears of the evaluation, right? Is your brain stuck on this failure thing and doing everything not to fail, or are you actually looking towards success and what it would take to be successful and striving for success? And so I just try to flip the way they're looking, because they're spending so much time trying not to fail and doing all the things not to fail. That it's making them feel stuck and pressured and in a pressure cooker really. And when we flip it and say, ok, imagine if your what ifs were not what if this happened or what if this happened, but what if I was successful, what if I could reach my goals Like the relief and the excitement and the joy that comes over their face, imagining what it would feel like if they reached their goals, and then switching the way they frame it to what does it take to be successful and how can I strive for success, then that taps into that growth mindset framework that we look for and the ability to reach your goals, knowing that failure is always on the other side of the continuum, but not what they're going for. And so it's really simple they just fear failure or fear evaluation, and you got them to actually tap into how could they be successful, and then the problem can be solved.
Speaker 2:Would that be advice that you would suggest to anyone, regardless of anyone that may possess a fear of failure or fear of evaluation? But fear of failure, I feel like, is the one that we hear the most, and I certainly hear the most from friends and a lot of former athletes and a lot of former athletes Is it, hey, present what the other side may have to offer, meaning well, what if it does go well? Or what would? What if you are successful? Is it that simple reframe that you would offer to anybody, or are there other types of inventory that you would encourage one to take before they choose that as their reframe?
Speaker 1:I mean, it's always important to understand how big is that fear, right, and where's the fear coming from? I often tell anyone and high performer or not, right, humans, we're all performing in something you know. Everyone's been scared of the dark at some point in their life and you know, in order to get through the fear of the dark, you turn on a nightlight or a closet light or hallway light, some sort of guide, to help you make it less scary, and then you're able to make meaning of the fear and then you don't need the nightlight anymore. This is the same thing for a performance, right? Once you name whatever that fear is, you take the power away from it, and then you can start using the night light and figuring out okay, how can I see things differently and how can I be less?
Speaker 2:scared and then imagine a world differently. That allows me to be successful. Is fear of failure often something that isn't generated from sport alone? Do you find that most people that possess this fear any fear? In general, I have a sense, based off doing some research and speaking to people, that it often is generated from something back in childhood. Most of our fears are often our inner child that is paying us a visit in some way, shape or form. Do you find that to ring true for the most part with athletes, or is it sport that is creating those fears, independently of what they may have experienced in early years?
Speaker 1:I mean, both can be true, right. But when we look at sport in general, we hyper focus this pressure around outcomes and this need to succeed. And we look at jobs are based on wins and losses. Getting on a team and performance and maintaining your contract is about results. So it's heightened more in that microcosm of sport itself. It allows that fear to brood even more.
Speaker 1:But in general, us as humans, we're always looking to perform. We look at the school systems it's about grades, it's about accolades, end of the year awards. All of our society is based on how good you're doing and a reflection of that is on the performance of what we've deemed as successful right. So I think there's a part of our non-athletes that are still in this performance-based fear of not being enough. You know, not doing enough, not fitting in enough, not sales job, right, you don't hit your quota, you're fired, right. So all of the world we function in is about performing at a high level. Those that impact the most is when it impacts their self-esteem and their self-worth, and then we see that as being more problematic for them, because the anxiety can show up, the depression can show up, you know, the dropout rates can get higher in different areas of what they're working through.
Speaker 2:Would you say that the folks that you work with do they struggle more with releasing fears or having an off switch or something else, or perhaps a combination of those two things and whatever else you may add to. Here's what I really find that we have to break down so that they can perform at their absolute best as an athlete, as a professional, as a servant to the community and whatever else that may bring them pleasure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's interesting, the word choice right, because when I hear you what do we have to break down, I flip it. I'm like what do I have to build up?
Speaker 2:in that athlete.
Speaker 1:What skills do I have to add into their toolbox? Right, because naturally the high performers I work with they don't realize it, but they're already coming in with a very strong skillset of the mental tools that I utilize. They just maybe are using them in the wrong way. Their training methodology is not working for them anymore because they wouldn't have got to a certain level if they didn't know how to set goals, if they didn't have certain work ethic and determination and drive and grit. But something's happening in their life now that's interfering from them, allowing them as successful as they want. Or, on the flip side, I have some athletes that come in that are already successful and they just want to continue to be more successful. Which is a harder athlete to work with is how do you maintain the success? And there's different things that show up, but I'm always looking at what do we need to build to allow you to get to that next level and remove any obstacles?
Speaker 1:I think to your question is there fear in some of them admitting and having a self-awareness to actually feel emotions? It's really hard as society in general, but especially as athletes, to have proper emotional regulations. We don't teach them how to express their emotions appropriately. We define what emotions are acceptable, especially in high performance, especially between men and women. There are certain emotions that we say this is societally acceptable and this is not. We see people bash them on the Internet if they respond and behave a certain way. And so I think that component of how can they be a human, how can they emotionally express themselves? They've never been taught to act a certain way, or this is weak, and so I have to teach them on how to be emotionally vulnerable and how to be empathetic and have the self-awareness to feel those things and regulate their emotions at a level.
Speaker 1:And then, on the other side, I think we have to look at yeah, how do they not allow sport to be their entire identity? How do they allow that to be a large component of who they are? But outside of that, what are the other areas that they can excel in that they can turn their off, switch on and go do? That's why you look at Steph Curry as an example. He talks about playing golf all the time. He plays golf and he's a good golfer, but he plays golf because it's a mindful routine for him. That's not basketball, right. You have people that love to cook and be artists and then it becomes a job and they're okay if they would ever lose that, and those are things that I try to build within them.
Speaker 2:It's try to build within them is like who are you beyond the sport? Because you'll be way better if you're happy in life. Your sport will be way easier. On the emotional regulation piece, or the ability to experience emotions, is there something? Are there? Is there a clear distinction between where men and women may struggle with this and what emotions that they'll either invite in or turn away?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so it's interesting. So we're seeing a shift and the opposite, which I love to see. But society before had these pro prescribed emotions that men were strong and in sport you're masculine and you cannot show weakness, and weakness would be overly emotionally expressive and showing tears and crying and and discussing openly what was bothering you, right. So men would not do that. They would internalize their emotions, where women would be more outward, external processors and you know, that's why we had this like hysteria right, they were so hysterical in their drama and we look at old terms of like depression that existed is women were crying all the time, expressing other emotions.
Speaker 1:Sports a funny world, though, because it's very masculine and male dominated, and so women are prescribing to the male norms and so female athletes are not showing the emotions in the way that they normally would express in societal ways is what we deem feminine to the point where you look at our female athletes that start trash talking now and are competitive on the court. Especially the WPA is a great example about this that they're talking on the court, they're trash talking, and people are like you can't do that. And these women are like why can't I? Like if I were crying, you would think that was a problem. And now I'm trash talking which men can do. Think that was a problem. And now I'm trash talking which men can do. But now you're saying that I can't do that.
Speaker 1:On the flip side, we see these men who will cry and express emotion and at first society had a hard time being like why are these men crying? That's weak, they shouldn't cry. And now we praise men for expressing such vulnerability and empathy and emotional expression to it. But we're very harsh critics about what we expect our athletes to demonstrate and that's partly because we've romanticized these athletes to act a certain way, be a certain way. They're superpowers, they're superheroes in certain ways of what they can do that we dehumanize them. And I always try to come back in and like humanize sport as best as possible.
Speaker 2:You got me thinking about to your point there. First person that came to mind was Caitlin Clark, and man, she's getting tossed around right now on the court. You know, in the NBA, where it was real intense, people are in your face, there's hard fouls, and then on the flip side, with men, I certainly see exactly what you're saying and that you know even men are crying after they win a championship or the finish line at a marathon, where years ago I could see how that would happen and people be like oh, you're being a wuss. You know what? That? What the heck.
Speaker 2:Men don't cry and right I find it to be pretty encouraging. What's your take on it, and also from your colleagues? Do you feel like there's additional room to grow here, or any other shifts that y'all would love to see in this evolving world of sport?
Speaker 1:would love to see in this, in this world of sport, evolving world of sport. Yeah, I think I love it. I love when any emotion is expressed, right, because we have these universal, six universal emotions, and I love that it's not men can do this and women can do this, and that we're highlighting them at such a high level. And there will always be criticism, and I think the conversation is important, right? Oh, why can this guy cry and this woman can't? Or X, y or Z? Right? Oh, why can this guy cry and this woman can't? Or X, y or Z? Right, having the dialogue and having the athletes follow through with who they are, the athletes, taking power of their voice and their actions, is essential and we see a lot of them advocating now for mental health needs and the mental performance stuff and utilizing sports psychology and, you know, going to therapy, and I think that is so beautiful for them to highlight at the level that they're at going to therapy, and I think that is so beautiful for them to highlight at the level that they're at. When I talk to a lot of these elite athletes, I always ask them you know, if you were to have exposure to mental performance, to sports psychology. When would it be right? Because the first time they were exposed is maybe at the pro level, maybe at the college level, and they're like, oh, I wish I had it as a kid, at the bare minimum, I wish I had it in college, right? So we see that they're saying I wish I had it because they didn't utilize it or they didn't have it, and now they're saying it would have been so helpful.
Speaker 1:The transition that really needs to shift is from coaches and the coach education and the coaches creating these psychologically safe and secure environments. There's such a disconnect with allowing feelings to be present and having a standard of excellence. Anytime you bring up having these players that have feelings, they think that now we don't have to have a standard of excellence and discipline and we must be soft on them and then they can perform. And so they create these such, these harsh environments that are really toxic for our athletes. And I'm saying no, create a psychologically safe environment, but have the standard of excellence. Have the standard of. This is what it takes to win and here's the expectations I have for you and hold true to those boundaries, but you can still be empathetic and you can still create a space that allows them to emotionally express themselves, and we haven't got there yet, and that's where we need to grow into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when we previously spoke into yeah, when we previously spoke. It's interesting. I feel like there is a shift taking place in terms of where rigidity has a place in sports and it sounds like, based off what you're saying, it still can and should exist to some extent, or maybe there's an asterisk we put on there, but it can't be the only driving force for performance. I think about wrestling, being a former wrestler, and Penn State has had a dominant program now for the last roughly 15 years. Now for the last roughly 15 years. Wrestling isn't a sport where there's much mincing of words, it's one-on-one, it's dog-eat-dog and it's scrappy, it's ruthless.
Speaker 2:Penn State has figured out a way to continue to dominate and when you look at their wrestling room, what's interesting is their warmups. They'll play dodgeball, they will play some sort of game. They don't have everybody wearing full sweats and hoodies versus. If you look at Iowa another storied program uh, still very much old school. It feels like rigidity is the driving force and I'm not sure if that's the reason why they haven't been able to crack the code much over the last 15 years, but it feels like some of these programs that are even allowing their teams to have a little bit more fun, even if that means in warmups it looks like they're doing better. And Penn State also has their athletes talking about their team psychologists and the role that they've been playing. So I'm curious to know what excites you most about where the sports world is going in that sense and that more teams are having psychologists. Like should coaches have psychologists as well? Like what's your ultimate dream with this?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think that's the next shift. Right, we? We haven't got every program um on board to have enough psychologists or mental performance coaches in place. Right? Sometimes it's still one person for 900 athletes and no one can do that Right? So there's still room to grow and there's still job creation that needs to be out there.
Speaker 1:I view the mental performance and sports psychology world in a growth phase.
Speaker 1:How strength and conditioning athletic trainers were, now we have five strength and conditioning coaches and five athletic trainers for different teams, or at least three big departments, and I eventually see this shifting where more organizations will have five middle performance sports psychologists on staff to help all the athletes.
Speaker 1:The next shift beyond that, though, has to be for the coaches and the organizational wellness side of things Like how do you educate the key stakeholders and the decision makers in creating the same culture that you want your players on field and on court to have? Right, and so there has to be that, especially for your coaches, where you know that their job relies on winning. Their contract is based on. They got a short period of time to maintain that success, and if they don't reach that level, we look at a team just lost a job and he got to the Eastern Conference Finals, right, and NBA, and it's like that wasn't good enough, right, you know. So I think that the coaches need it. They're taking a lot of emotional weight on their shoulders and they're away from their families, and and the time spent on being a coach right you need to have someone who can talk to and understand you as well. So that is, for sure, an evolution that needs to happen.
Speaker 2:I would love to see that more people in the world, sports or not, make investments in. You know we talk about like everybody in life, whether you're on an actual team, like sports team or whatever, we all have a team that surrounds us, our family, everybody's got a doctor, a dentist. I look forward to the day where it's more and more common that people are also saying, yeah, and I've got my mental performance coach, I've got my therapist. I invested in therapy over the last few months more, I would say, as a preventative maintenance and also recognizing that I felt some wounds that I thought had closed up were opening back up from the past and I didn't want that to take over and go into therapy something. Five years ago I would have said the heck with that, that's weak sauce. And now part of me is kicking myself a little bit like man. I wish I would have done that sooner.
Speaker 1:Well, even myself as a clinical sports psychologist, like knowing I wish I had someone when I was in high school, which I had someone when I was in college. Like it took me years before I even went on my own and it was actually before I had my first child is when I went and I was like I'm not even practicing what I speech.
Speaker 2:Like I should be like doing this Cause I'm telling everyone they should do it, but I wasn't, cause I was are the biggest misconceptions that you find or hear, as it relates to mental performance, training and how people view or talk about the work that you do in the field that you're in and that you wish people would understand like hey, it's actually not that and this is what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it's it's interesting with mental performance or for me, who's duly trained, right as a clinical sports psychologist, I think the misdemeanor is people only come to us when there's a problem and it's very solution-based and solution oriented. And in my private practice world I've been able to flip that script essentially and I have the privilege of seeing a lot of young adolescent you know, 13, 14 year old kids and my whole goal is I want to be a part of your team in the good and the bad and you come and go as you need to with me and I'm here to support you. And there's different flows in your life and when I had someone who's 14 and now he's 23 and he's come back and foreseeing me, it's like this is a beautiful relationship. Now you've bought into what that dynamic looks like and it's not just when things are bad, like you can come see me when things are good. We just don't have to meet weekly, Right.
Speaker 1:But you know, there's this essence of I'm fixed now and I think that's that's been a struggle for for myself and other colleagues, Like I've lost contracts or I haven't had contracts renewed and I've been trying to figure out like why did I not get my contract renewed Right. Like this team was successful, they won championships, Like they've hit all the accolades. If we were trying to measure what success looks like, and they don't renew a contract and it's like, well, did the team not have money? Did they stop believing in mental performance? Did they think they got it figured out now Cause they were winning?
Speaker 1:Those parts are hard to figure out. Like you put yourself out of a job because you make people feel better and you make people win and then it's like, oh okay, so getting people to understand like this is someone you want on your team. Like at a consistent level, at a preventative level, not just an intervention, fix it level. You need someone who's constantly there to work through things, because you can't predict when life happens and in organizations, somehow something's gonna happen for somebody on that organization, whether it's a family member passes, the birth of a child, an injury, or how do I handle all this pressure from school? Like things happen, life's not predictable, and so if you have someone who's stable in that environment, who's constantly there, who can help you navigate these things, that's a lot better than oh, and now I need to call that person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what I heard you say there really is that this work is never truly done and it's it's like, for instance, when we get in shape, we don't stop working out. We continue to work out to maintain that shape and maintain the benefits of working out, which are far beyond physical, and we keep doing it because we may want to continue to experience just the good feeling it brings to you. And that's certainly, I feel, like an opportunity that we have in society. Is that, hey, this isn't just to quote, fix whatever's wrong right now. It's also good service to your body, mind and soul that you maintain having this person or these group of people on your team. And you mentioned there that it's especially important because we don't know when life will happen to us and a perfect segue into some of the other work that you've done as an author and your book.
Speaker 2:Hello Trauma, our Invisible Teammate. We've all had, or my sense is that just about everybody in this world has something that has taken place, something significant that has taken place in their life that they could have never predicted, and it may drive what they do today. It may also hold them back from doing the things that they dream of doing, and that could be simply because of their relationship with trauma. The book helps us to find the good and how our trauma can serve us. Talk about the driving force for the book and also how you get people to experience the good side of whatever trauma they've experienced and what it can bring them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ever since I started going through this, I went through my own kind of different traumatic events as a youth athlete to different things that shaped me in college and when I was studying sports psychology, I really just was fascinated with the unspoken things that were happening the dark side of sport, and I was like why are we having these conversations behind closed doors and we're not talking about them publicly, we're not putting a name to them out? Like why aren't we doing anything about this? I really struggled with that. Like why isn't anyone saying the things that aren't good about sport? And I love sport in my heart. I still compete, my kids compete, like I have such a passion for it. It's what I built my career around, but part of that is I want it to be a place that's safe and good and for anybody right. I want it accessible to all people and functions at different stages of life, and what I found through my own experience and the athletes I work with that sport actually is really toxic. And so I had an opportunity to do a TEDx at Texas State University and it was the most challenging thing in my career at the time and I was so proud of it. Until then I wrote my book, which was then the most proud thing I had, but it was the TEDx was on the toxic culture of sport around athletes' mental health, and it was the first time in my career I was about 10 years into my career now now where I was really naming what I truly was passionate about and what I was focusing on, which was athletes' mental health and how this was not okay and we can't create these environments that are causing such harm to these athletes and we need to do, we need to be better, right, we need to do something about it. And then, four years past that, I had the opportunity. I started working in pro spaces and my career was kind of taking off at different levels, at the highest level you could be at, and I was still witnessing these dysfunctional organizations and things that were not okay. And I had an opportunity where I was like, okay, well, I need to speak to this and I need to put words to paper and speak to things that people can't make meaning of and they weren't able to describe, and I wanted to create a book that would be healing for those that were never able to make sense in the meaning behind what they went through and to take ownership and have a voice that could be the voice for everyone and to help people understand. So I created it.
Speaker 1:It's a twofold book. It's really hard to explain because the first half of the book is very emotionally experiential of helping people understand what trauma is and the stages that someone would go through and making a psychological reason behind it. Right you emotionally evokes you into the process of what a victim of trauma is and then helps you psychologically understand it. And then there's this call to action, using sport as a microcosm of society, saying this is how it reinforces it to exist if we don't get it better. And it's kind of a call to action of like anyone can read this book if they're not an athlete. I just use sport as an example. But any organization, any leader, any human can now empathetically understand what trauma is. They can heal independently, they can show up for people differently and they can shape their work environments and their cultures differently. That's my hope. It's a very aspirational hope, but it's been a mission that I've been on and I finally was like you know what I need to actually put words to the action, to the things that I speak about.
Speaker 2:If someone listening is having difficulty putting a positive spin on their trauma or coming to terms with it, how would you guide them through that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, first I would just sit and listen and really I think that that's the beautiful thing is like people just need to be listened to, they need to be seen and heard and I don't need to minimize your experience. Or I don't need to minimize your experience or I don't even have to make meaning myself for your experience. I want you to make meaning of your own experience for yourself. But the trauma doesn't go away. It's psychologically inside you, right, and that's why I say it's our invisible teammate. Like. It can be the best teammate for you and you can use it as a powerful way to put into action and work through things and make change. But it also can be a very detrimental, toxic teammate to you where it makes you isolate and be depressed and hyper vigilant. And no one wants to experience these mental illness. You know subsidiary diagnoses you get from trauma. They don't want to have flashbacks and panic attacks. It's not something that they're like, hey, I can't wait for this to happen, like, but it's. It's the process of not knowing how to work through that and not being taught how to manage that. And so this is saying hey, it's not going in there, you have to learn to address it and it doesn't make you less thing because you went through something and it doesn't make you amazing because you went through something either. It's just a part of you and you get to define the next chapter of your story and I think that's the essence of hope that I put in there.
Speaker 1:And I bounce around this idea of does healing actually exist? Is it? Is it a process? You know? And and I've really worked through people always ask me are you writing another book? And I and I had this idea of you know, hello, healing our biggest fan right, and I thought that's gonna be my next book. But as I was working through some and as someone who's gone through traumatic things, and very publicly, I realized I don't know if we're those that have been through something traumatic would ever want to say that they're healed, because admitting or owning that you're healed feels like it takes away from what you went through. And those of us that have gone through something don't ever want our story to be forgotten. We don't ever want the pain to be forgotten to others. We don't want to feel the pain anymore, but we don't want something that was so impactful to us be taken away if we say we're healed. And so it's this really challenging thing of maybe we're just always healing, but we're never healed.
Speaker 2:You've got my mind running now. That's so. That's so unique. I've never I think about. I think about the trauma that I've experienced and how I can tell you right now with a smile on my face, and I'll stand on stages with a smile on my face saying it's the best gift I've ever received in my life, because it is it's packaged a little differently and I think about am I healed from that or am I healing, or what's a different way that I would that we can suggest or offer to people beyond, beyond a healing journey? I don't know. It makes me think like what, if someone does want to argue that no, I am healed from it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and I and I could say yeah, like when I think, when I compare this to injury, because it's an emotional injury that you exist. Maybe we are healed from the injury and the trauma itself, but did you heal well, right? So I think about an ACL injury and did you do the proper rehab and take the time? And now you have a great new knee and you can be faster and you can run faster, but maybe you had Tommy John and you rushed it back and you can never throw a baseball again at the same level, right? Or you didn't take care of your scar and your scar shows. So I think that the injury itself we can close up, but the aftermath of that may cause us to still have a limp or to still have pain or to still show up, and I think that's what trauma does.
Speaker 2:It still emotionally shows up for us if we don't take the proper steps to recover the mental barriers that may be holding them back and when they discover one, let's say it's that I'm always. I know, one that I struggled with in the past with, especially with, my mom, is I would get reactive anytime I thought that she didn't believe I was capable or felt like she didn't trust me. Like, hey, it's cold out, Did you get your jacket and I'd find myself snapping. And it's this conditioned response that I had formed, that hey, this person doesn't trust me or doesn't believe in me. Now I'm going to defend myself. How can people be awake to what it is that may be holding them back and work through those mental barriers or conditioned responses that they want to rewire once they become aware of? Oh crap, like I'm doing this thing and it's got to stop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, oftentimes people only show up to explore that work when a problem exists right, maybe a relationship is failing or they're not reaching their goals or they're on the brink of something traumatic, and so then they're like no, I got to go fix it Right. However, the work doesn't stop there and I think those that are more curious and actually like view it differently. Like how could I be better, how can I be vulnerable enough to understand my weaknesses or my blind spots and ask the right questions, not with judgment, but with curiosity. And that takes a lot of growth, because we're all wired to be defensive, right? It's hard to hear feedback Sometimes, it's hard to not feel like we're good enough and working through things, and so I think it takes a lot of time and patience and grace within yourself to choose to do this work, to choose to say, hey, I'm curious about this because I want it to be better, and I want to be better in certain domains.
Speaker 1:And I think when you can identify why you're curious and want to answer those questions, then you'll be able to work through things and find the answers you want to have.
Speaker 2:Is there a particular exercise or set of questions, or perhaps a mentor, that was so transformative to you along your journey that you keep going back to the lessons or the experience and and what it gave you and it continues to serve you to this day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can think about one specifically and I use it in my work a lot. So it was actually the men's track and field coach at the university of New Hampshire, um, and he was actually the director of the whole track field program, but he was never my direct coach, um, his name was coach B and I was actually the director of the whole track field program, but he was never my direct coach. His name was Coach B and I was really struggling in undergrad as a track athlete. I had such high desires and passions and you know, everyone comes in to college and they're the best athlete from where they were right and everyone's the number one or two person and so I was used to being the best and now I'm not the best and I feel like I'm getting ignored by my coach and half my teammates probably have eating disorders and I'm struggling with body image and it's just like traumatic for me. I'm like I'm not at home and I wasn't reaching my goals and then I got hurt and I was just like this is a disaster. And he was so wonderful to recognize that I had such a passion and desire, but I needed someone to care about me. I needed someone to see me as a human and we would have coffee every Tuesday at this place called the Dairy Bar. It's like this little like truck stop, like across from our athletic department. We'd walk over there, we'd have coffee, we'd come back to his office and he was the type of coach who would like study GRE words with me and quiz me on certain things and get to know me as life. Like when my dog died, he was the first person I ran to and I was like my dad had to put my dog down, like he was a human and saw me as a human. But he also challenged me and he gave me the best advice I'll never forget. It was my sophomore year. Now I'm studying sports psychology Like you think I'm like in it.
Speaker 1:But he sat down with me and he gave me a book to read. And then he also told me at the end of the day, you're going to graduate and you're going to get on the bus. You're going to get on the bus. That that you know you're going to graduate here and you have to decide. Did you get on the bus that made it, or did you get on the what if bus he goes. Only you can decide what bus you get on, but you have to decide what bus that's going to be.
Speaker 1:And it then flipped everything on it that I had so much more control of my actions and my behaviors, of what I wanted to do, and I was getting in my own way because I was blaming everyone else, the environment. My coach didn't like me. This was happening. I wasn't good enough that he challenged me and said look, you're going to get out of here. Just which bus are you going to get on? And only you can answer that.
Speaker 1:And it's been something I tell all my athletes. I got little buses that I give them for transitional objects, and it's been a really powerful tool. Do I want to be on a bus that made it and I get to define what making it looks like or do I want to be on a what if bus? And so since then, I now challenge my athletes. Now, every day, when you look in the mirror and you're brushing your teeth, can you ask yourself did I do enough today? Can I be proud of what I did today? And you know, only you can look yourself in the eye and to know if you've done enough, and so I constantly come back to that and I'm so grateful and happy to say I had to get on the bus that made it and got my goals that I wanted to out of college. I was very happy with that, but it was a hard road to get there, for sure.
Speaker 2:Amen. So it's now the athletes who you work with. You can ask them which bus are you hopping on? That's powerful. I'm going to share that with my mastermind group tomorrow. Which bus are you getting on? And tell me if I'm saying this wrong, repeating it wrong. You got on the you made it bus, or the what if bus?
Speaker 1:Yeah, at the end of the day, you're getting on a bus.
Speaker 2:You're going to the destination.
Speaker 1:Are you on the bus that made it or are you on the what if? Bus?
Speaker 2:I love that. That sounds like a very simple and powerful mindset shift, which leads me into the mind shift masterminds. Talk through what you're creating with that, Dr Cawthon, and your vision with your upcoming MindShift Masterminds. What can people learn? What do you wish that they walk away with and what brings you the most joy with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I wanted to create a space that was for professional leaders to go into, that was more intimate in nature so they're smaller nature, 35 to 50 people with the intention that you're getting leadership, professional development through other leaders and building high networks at the same time. And so there's panel experts at any event that we do, but there's also integrated holistic wellbeing and care, and so I'm putting on one that's a women's event and empower her event, which I'm really excited. So all the panelists are going to be female leaders, female entrepreneurs in different spaces, but within that we'll have like a mindfulness meditation to start this intentionality. So I'm teaching these leaders how to take care of themselves while learning how to take care of other people.
Speaker 1:And so there's very intentionality in the space that we're doing, beyond the panels and the shares that you're doing. They're really innovative and fun and hopefully will be sustainable networks for other people to then be able to connect, because in this entrepreneurial space, a lot of these founders and executives feel like they're often alone and isolated, and so I wanted to be very intentional about creating a group where people could share stories and connect and then build that beyond just the mastermind event. So I'll have a women's event only. Stay tuned on my website for other events that show up, because there'll be, you know, multiple different leadership to professional development spaces in these masterminds.
Speaker 2:What's the best way for people to keep up with you and support you and eventually join one of these MindChef masterminds? What's the best way for people to keep up with you and support you and eventually join one of these Mind Chef masterminds?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm very active on Instagram, dr C Mindsets, my handle, also on LinkedIn, or our direct website, which is wwwtxoppscom, so everything will be kind of highlighted in all those areas.
Speaker 2:Dr Cawthon, you know this from our trial run. We'll call that the last conversation we had, that the closing tradition on this podcast is a rapid fire session. One gem, one step, one book. And imagine we're going to grab breakfast or lunch at a cool spot and we're going up three elevator floors. On each floor a new person's going to enter the elevator. They recognize you and they have a question for you, and the amount of time you have to answer it is the amount of time it takes to go up one elevator floor. So with that first person gets in, they've read your book, perhaps they even attended one of the MindShift masterminds. Dr Cothin, what's one gem that you have, whether it be a quote or a mantra that you live your life by, that I can put in my back pocket to serve me well in the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my motto is be happy, healthy and full of love. So can you ask yourself at the end of every day did you do something that made you happy, are you living a healthy lifestyle and did you share love today?
Speaker 2:Hearing that makes me smile from ear to ear. Next person gets on Dr Cotham. What's one step that we can take today to bolster our mental performance and wellbeing?
Speaker 1:I would say the five minute mind is my game changer, so can you sit and seek stillness for five minutes every day.
Speaker 2:You know, I just released a podcast episode today about the power of stillness and that being a key enabler for self-mastery. Love that practice Last one. Love that practice last one. Dr cothen, what's one book in addition to yours that you recommend people read in 2025 to improve their mental game?
Speaker 1:power of moments. Um, I can't think of the author, but the book is so essential because it talks about the intentionality of creating moments and how impactful that can be for people's mental and emotional well-being.
Speaker 2:Beautiful, dr Cothen. This was an amazing conversation. Love that we got to connect again and very appreciative of the insights that you shared today from everything. Everything from encouraging people to experience their emotions, not be afraid to experience who they really are at the heart and not allow that to stop them to encouraging people that mental performance and having people on your team isn't just something that we do to feel better in a given moment or get over something. It's something that is important to achieve our greatest level of performance and it's an amazing maintenance activity. In addition to the mental workout, to everything that you have coming up with, your mind shift masterminds. Love to see the continued impact that you are creating in this world and it's my, it's my wish that people follow along your journey, take their mental performance seriously, so that they can win today. Thank you so much.
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