Win Today
Win Today is a performance enhancing podcast filled with actionable insights and inspiration to come out on top in life. Through captivating interviews and solo episodes, a powerful tool is created and given to listeners to be able to push through any situation in life.
Hosted by Ryan Cass, he delivers messages that align to his purpose of helping people establish a foundation for sustained success, break trends of adversity, and chart desirable courses for life. Win Today!
Win Today
#195 | From Wall St. To A NASCAR Pit Stop: Unlocking High Performance Ft. Evan Marks
In this episode, elite mental performance coach Evan Marks shares insights on overcoming self-imposed limitations, drawing from his work with NASCAR drivers, Wall Street traders, and top athletes. He reveals a simple formula for success: Performance = Potential - Interferences, showing how reducing mental barriers, many of which are unconscious, unlocks new potential. Through powerful stories and practical tools, Marks demonstrates how curiosity, reframing fear, and shifting our language can help us break through personal and professional limits.
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So when we think about curiosity right, curiosity in its essence is information seeking. That's what it means. So how does it affect mental performance? And how does it excuse me, play into mental performance? Let's just think about it.
Speaker 1:If I said to you, I'm curious to see if we start this company, if we start this practice, what could it look like? But I don't know, let's go see, as opposed to let's go start this company. If we start this practice, what could it look like? But I don't know, let's go see, as opposed to let's go start this. Well, you know, we could fail. We may not win. This may take longer than we think, but if you're curious, it's almost goes around that resistance of, well, my father failed. I've learned this that you don't take risks, because if you take risks, bad things happen. But if you get curious and say you know what, let me see, the intensity of the fear of dot dot dot is lessened. I'm interested. Of the fear of dot dot dot is lessened. I'm interested. That alone opens up so many different paths for you to take, because you know what we may be wrong. Well, yeah, I'm just curious. I'm curious to see what happens.
Speaker 2:And so now as you forge ahead. That almost brings possibilities. Welcome to the Wednesday Podcast, a weekly resource thoughtfully crafted to help people build and refine discipline, accomplish their goals, fortify their mindsets and be of service to somebody in this world. My name is Ryan Cass and I am your host, and it is my mission and commitment to deliver amazing episodes to you every week where you'll learn from myself or renowned expert in their field. We love helping people win in every aspect of their lives, and you can help us win by sharing the show with somebody that you believe will benefit from it, subscribing and leaving a rating and review. We believe that everybody in this world is meant to do something great with their lives and we're here to help play a role in that. Thank you for tuning in and let's win today.
Speaker 2:What would life look like without self-induced limitations? What would life look like without self-induced limitations? What would life look like, free of procrastination from the future that we ultimately envision for ourselves? If we sit with that and explore it for a minute, we'd likely see endless possibilities and things that we wish were in reach right now. Endless possibilities and things that we wish were in reach right now. We have all the tools that are needed to create the life that we ultimately envision, and it's through people like Evan Marks who helped make that a possibility. He has gone from Wall Street to the pit stop, as he is a mental performance coach for athletes, NASCAR drivers, Wall Street traders, the elite of the elite in the business world, and he has been an amazing transformation story himself, Evan. Welcome, brother Ryan. What a pleasure to be here, brother.
Speaker 1:I've been looking forward to this all week, and obviously to everybody else, happy Valentine's.
Speaker 2:Day Since we first spoke, I was juiced up. I felt like we could have gone for hours and I'm excited for people to experience that Northeast energy that you bring, and we said some cool things about you. You've worked with some amazing people. You have access to a lot of incredible people notables that we talk about day in, day out, that we often reference as examples for the type of people that we want to be. But before we really explore that, what's the most important thing for the world to know about you?
Speaker 1:I think for anybody who wants to achieve anything in life, nothing is linear. You know, when you look at somebody who's accomplished something, or the things that you model or that you emulate, never think it's linear, like there is struggle in life, there is pain in life, but it really, you know, like you just said in that intro, we are limitless if we choose to believe that you know and and and you know. The people I coach and the people I associate with like to be in that, that lane where let's see what, where it takes us. And that's all right if you want to go in the slow lane and this is what you want out of life, but if you want more and you believe in possibilities and you're so curious about what else is out there, then go for it because it is limitless.
Speaker 1:Expectations are nothing. You know. People have broken expectations time and time again. I can't believe. Oh yeah, they did it again. So why put limits on yourself? It really is. It's having the power to believe Like you know what, what am I really capable of doing? Talent will take you so far, but you put that effort in that belief system and that daily, where day stack, week stack, month stack you have no idea what is possible, and that's exciting to me.
Speaker 2:You're absolutely right that there is no linear path, and when I'm giving my keynotes especially if I'm speaking at a college and I've got a whiteboard available to me, I'll go up and draw a simple chart with a straight line and then I'll draw another line. They both arrive at the same destination, but this second line has the peaks, the valleys. The peaks, the big highs, the low lows, and then I'll point and say which one is more representative of life. Of course we would envision that it's the linear line and sometimes we create that narrative for everybody else. That man, evan, just had it figured out. He went from Wall Street to to coaching Jimmy Johnson and some of the top NASCAR drivers, and he's so much smarter he went to University of Pennsylvania. He just must have had it all figured out.
Speaker 2:When the reality is. Your bar graph looks the exact same as mine in terms of it's not straight. There's plenty of bumps. Those bumps were probably more beneficial than the peaks, because it's the bumps that created the peaks. So when we talk about cultivating a limitless mindset, what enabled you to build your limitless mindset and be able to even say the things that you just did in the beginning, that, hey, we all are actually limitless mindset and be able to even say the things that you just did in the beginning, that, hey, we all are actually limitless. What's your what crafted that belief for?
Speaker 1:you and that story. There's so many stories. But yeah, like you know I know it's so cliche we only learn from struggle. You don't learn much from success. But there is some truth to that. You look at life overall it looks a little straighter than it is, but in the immediate term it looks like there's like are we flatlining? Sometimes it is those peaks and troughs and things like that For me. I'm 52 years old and it sure as hell wasn't linear. But are those moments of doubt, those moments of like holy SHIT, what is going to happen here? Like staring down, I wouldn't say the abyss of catastrophe, but glimpsing All of a sudden? Once you get through that, you're like wait a second, I just did that.
Speaker 1:What else am I capable of doing? You know I spent 25 years on Wall Street. I graduated University of Pennsylvania. I was a lax guy, blew my knees out twice short, very short career, but it definitely affected me. Years and years afterwards I was a student athlete. Now I was just a student, so I lost my identity. I didn't realize the effect it had on me until I became extremely conscious of it later on.
Speaker 1:I spent 25 years on Wall Street. I enjoyed the competition, but I never wanted to do it, but fortunately I was good at it and it took until I was 46 years old where I thought I had a heart attack and it was a massive, massive panic attack. On paper everything looked good, was making money, healthy family, very blessed for the things I've had and learned. And in that moment I'm like holy shit, it's over. Like this is what I do for a living, what else am I going to do? And it took a neurologist to say, hey, listen, pal, it's over for you. Like if you don't make a decision now, your timeline is much shorter than you think it is. Luckily, my wife was there. I don't know how much panic was going on in her and I took a 99% pay cut to leave my Wall Street career, sell my partnership to become a coach back to school.
Speaker 1:Psychological theory, neuroscience, all these things. I'm like what am I doing? But it's funny, like along the way, like I'm like am I gonna have to sell my house? Am I gonna have to liquidate certain things to go play this thing out? That fear to say it wasn't intense, is is, is an understatement but all of a sudden I'm like wait a second, they started the stack. I'm like I'm okay, I'm still here. We started the stack.
Speaker 1:I was very fortunate I'm not going to say I wasn't that. I had a coach who brought me on, who was an ex-coach, who brought me. Instead of taking stairs, I took an elevator and then six months later I'm coaching at Hendrick Motorsports. I'm like, how does this happen? But it really was that.
Speaker 1:All right, I may fail at this. That's the worst case scenario. I may have to liquidate things to live. That's the worst case scenario. But when I realized that's not really the worst case scenario, the worst case scenario was I don't give it a go that I go back to this familiar thing that served me well, that I was so unhappy with. So we have a finite amount of time here, so who am I not to give it a go? What's the worst case scenario? I got to downsize, I got to budget things, but that's not the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is going back to what you said on the opening. I don't even see what I'm capable of doing For me. That would have been the biggest regret To me. That would have been the worst case scenario.
Speaker 2:It's just amazing how life plays its hand sometimes. I can only imagine what it's like going from an extremely financially lucrative career to then having to build something completely new and being in the corporate world myself with strong desires and a pursuit of also taking the entrepreneurial side full time. Occasionally I'll have those bouts and moments where man like every other Thursday, god willing, I get thanked for my efforts and it's pretty financially lucrative right now. I can imagine what fears may be present when it comes time to exit that. What did that look like for you? What were those voices, what were those doubts and what gave you some hope? Or at what point did you start noticing those fears being outweighed by all of the opportunities and progress that you were creating and making for yourself?
Speaker 1:opportunities and progress that you were creating and making for yourself? Such an awful question. I have a lot of examples of that, but the first one was literally my first coaching job, which is at Hendrick Motorsports. So I roll up in Charlotte, north Carolina, and there's a team of coaches and they just added me. So everyone's going to speak. We're sitting in these director chairs. There's only supposed to be 20 guys. There's 60 crew guys and five drivers. It almost looks like Nike Hendrick Motorsports. They have a performance center and the woman I'm working for goes. When she looks at me, she's like why don't you speak? I said, excuse me. I said I just joined the team about 20 seconds ago. You want me to speak Now? Remember, in my mind I'm about to sell my partnership with my hedge fund. I'm wearing these light gray slacks. I think I look decent. I literally have an assistant in the parking lot. We're unwinding positions.
Speaker 1:This is all going on at the same time and now I have to speak. I'm about to literally pee my pants. Literally. I'm like, really, this is what it's come down to. You are selling your partnership, you're about to speak in front of 60 alpha males who are just animals and you can't even do it. You're about to literally embarrass yourself in front of all these people. So I got up there Fear is an understatement, scared is I mean. That's left the building. I took a breath. I'm like you know what man? Either this is going to work or it's not.
Speaker 1:And as I started to speak and tell my story, the energy from these guys and girls I started to feel. Before you know it, it was 15 minutes, taking through the highs and the lows, and I remember when it was over, I said to myself that was the scariest moment in my life. I want more of that. I said if I could actually do that, I may be starting at zero, but I want to see what this is all about. It's something I've always wanted to do. To me, the service of others has always been important.
Speaker 1:And that moment in time I remember. I remember the pants. I was wearing, the shirt. I was wearing the sweater. I was wearing I'm like I need to be doing this. And I remember getting off and I called my wife and I have an identical twin brothers in Sydney, australia. I'm like I need to be doing this. I said I don't know what this road looks like and I know, like we just said, it's not going to be linear. It's going to be a lot of hard work, but I need to play this thing through and that was it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was so important to me when you affect people and you feel people and you empathize with people because you know they have so much more in their tank. It is one of the greatest feelings ever. What's it like working with folks in high pressure environments, such as a NASCAR driver, where they're not thinking in minutes and hours but their split second decisions and choices can be make or break. And it's high speed, probably little room for thought, and I can only imagine the mental fortitude that is necessary to be successful. And what's your role in working with someone like that? Because you're probably not going to Jimmy Johnson saying your role in working with someone like that? Because you're probably not going to Jimmy Johnson saying all right, man, on turn two, you need to bank, you need to start your bank right here and I need you to hit the clutch and envision that clutch going in. What does that actually look like? I've always been curious to explore these relationships with people in these high pressure environments and what you're working with them on.
Speaker 1:So I've met Jim and we've chatted, but I work mostly with his Pitbull teams. But you want to take it a step further. These guys have 12.5 seconds to make this thing right, so they either lose or they win. So when you talk about split second decision making-making, right, we all talk about making the right decision. Well, you don't know if it's the right decision. The right, tells you, is the amount of time right. We're trying to make the best decisions possible.
Speaker 1:So when I coach whether it's pit crew teams, drivers, athletes, ceos, wall Street, all those different things and these guys are high performers is the duration of response rate? Wall Street's fast, obviously, nascar's fast. Business is a little different. Different sports are a little different. The frequency of events Different sports are a little different. The frequency of events, but really in everything we do, is what does your mental space look like? So when we talk about what is the difference between reacting and responding, so if we get better at knowing the difference between the two, right Reacting is somebody comes into my house, I've got two daughters, I'm going to react. But if you say something to me and I have to respond to a situation, I need that mental space right, and the more you do it, the quicker it is to really have the best decision possible.
Speaker 1:So when you talk about people in high pressure, high risk, high decision places, it's really it almost looks like it slows down. Like how are they able to execute, to perform, to respond like that? And, by the way, fear is all over the place. There is no such thing as somebody being fearless, but we always hear, but in the face of how in God's name are they able to do that? That is mental performance. Mental performance is very simple. It's very simple.
Speaker 1:Mental performance is performance equals potential minus interferences. So the more and more you get to take away and minimize interferences which could be unconscious, what could be impulsivity, a lot of things from the past. If we're able to acknowledge that and minimize that, the equation shifts right. I minimize interferences, now the potential we have starts to go and then performance goes. So all of that is an equation of awareness. Like to know that if we can make the unconscious conscious and do that repetitively, we become unconsciously conscious, which sounds like flow, and that, literally, is just repetition. That is mental performance. That is significant training. It doesn't happen on a Tuesday. This is really the act of intentionality at its best. Can anybody do it? Absolutely Listen. I'm not Michael Jordan and never will be, but can I be an incredible coach who speaks well, who practices?
Speaker 2:Of course, so why can't we all do this?
Speaker 2:And the answer that we can discover with bringing consciousness to the unconscious. So I've heard you mention that on a few podcasts and that's something that I would really love to explore a little more, especially as we dig into psychoanalysis, and really for us to unlock our greatest level of performance. Using the formula potential minus interferences that interferences component, I would envision we're often holding on to things that we don't even know that we're holding on to, that are holding us back, and those things that we don't even know we're holding on to, that are holding us back. And those things that we don't even know we're holding on to isn't something that we just picked up yesterday. It's something that probably goes all the way back to childhood, that has influenced our being. That may not allow us to see a certain possibility that is up for the grabbing, but because of some sort of conditioning that we likely are not aware of at the moment, we're stopping ourselves. So what are the types of things that you discover that we would likely discover in ourselves when we bring the unconscious to conscious?
Speaker 1:Well, a big word you just used is conditioned. We're all conditioned, right, you know, we're pre-verbal, we're verbal. We know emotions evolve before intellect, right, I'm wet, I'm hungry. This is all.
Speaker 1:psychoanalytic One is, you know, and I want to bring a big word into this conversation called curiosity, yep, so we know that behavior changes before feelings, right, because we know that emotion started, then the intellect comes. So now we see things, we keep repeating things, we keep saying things that no longer serve us any longer. Right, our words do matter because it is a reflection of the internals. So now you know, the situation may look different, but the experience is the same. It's fear of this limits me from this.
Speaker 1:So get curious, say, wait a second, the situation looks different, but the outcome is the same. It keeps being the same. What is holding me back? Why do I keep repeating these things, even though intellectually I know what I need to do, but I keep repeating these same patterns. That is conditioning, that is programming.
Speaker 1:We know now through neuroscience, through neuroplasticity and all these beautiful words, we can actually reprogram the way we behave. We often can't reprogram the way we feel. I can't control how Ryan feels, but I sure as hell can have impact on how he behaves. So now, when I'm happy, I'm going to do this. It doesn't work that way. When I'm no longer sad, I'm going to do this. It doesn't work that way If we start to really be conscious of changing our behavior.
Speaker 1:I'll give you an example. So I was a lacrosse guy right Recruited to play lacrosse. I had an identical twin brother went to Penn with me. I blew my knees out once and I blew them out again. So now I'm a I'm a student athlete. Going to upenn, I blow my knees out once I'm a little slower than I do it again. So now everybody's going to play lacrosse.
Speaker 1:I am no longer an athlete. I've always been told I'm an athlete, I'm a student athlete I am now. I now feel less than I am, not who I am anymore. So now I go to Wall Street. It's 15 years of feeling inadequate. I never had the opportunity for people to see what I'm all about. So that feeling of rage, of anger, of inadequacy is starting to show up other places, unconsciously. So now I want to be the biggest guy on the trading desk. I don't care about the money, I want to show everybody how big I am.
Speaker 1:So now this past experience is now showing itself in the present. I am completely unaware of it. Well, this is normal, but it's not. I am not dealing something from the past. Well, this is normal, but it's not. I am not dealing something from the past. So I am not conscious of what is going on here, until it gets to a point where wait a second, this is not working Right. Somehow I'm surviving, but I'm definitely there is, there is an anchor holding me back. I have to go back and understand what is going on here, because something unconsciously in my behavior is affecting my results.
Speaker 1:So now, as you go back, acknowledge, explore, get curious, say, wait a second, no way You're telling me that this 18-year-old kid is showing up when I'm 32 years old, that hasn't healed yet. How is that even possible? Possible, very possible. So for me it was like I can't say I don't feel inadequate. Now I can't say I. Through repetition and awareness, those feelings are tied to a new behavior which now has a different experience, which then is a different circuitry in the brain. So I had to become extremely conscious. Like you know what, ryan, this is no longer working for me. This repetition, this cycle, excuse me, it's not serving me anymore. It's trying to defend me and take care of me, but it's no longer so. Now, when I become conscious, I'm like you know what? Now I have to change this. Now I have to tie new behaviors because I'm not happy. I can't say when I'm happy, I'll do this because I don't know when that's going to happen. So I have to make the change now, behaviorally, in order to have different experiences and cause different circuitry in my brain. So now, over repetition, my default now is that when I'm angry, when I have rage, when I feel disappointed, I don't go back and cut it all circuitry. I've really through conditioning a positive side of that and training, I can. Now my default is what can we do? Man as opposed to? I can't believe this is happening to me. It's how do I get that? That's a shift. Now, am I the only person in the universe that happened to? Of course not.
Speaker 1:We all have this ability to get better. It's really the art of. We talked about intentionality, we talked about being curious, we talked about reframing the situation, but it's really like who the hell do you want to feed yourself? Do you want to feed the wolf or the dog? What words are we using? Which way? You know, when we talk about feedback, there's feed forward also. You know what? I'm not where I want to be yet. So what do I need to do now?
Speaker 1:This situation sucked, I got it. Do we want to ruminate in the past? Do we want to ruminate in the loss, because ruminating, by the way, is a behavior or do you want to say you know what? Man, that really sucked. I acknowledge that, but what can I do better next time? What do I need to do to make this experience look different? That two seconds is a massive shift, right, and that's mindset. So all these things we talk about are so true and you really get to experience them when you put them into practice and practice, and practice, and and practice and practice, because we're never there yet.
Speaker 1:But I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's very rewarding to know that I'm going to keep going. I'm 52 years old. I started my own coaching company last year. Even though I've coached for seven years, I'm not even done yet. I have no idea where this goes, but I'm super excited to see where it does Beautiful.
Speaker 2:How does someone that's curious now take action on this about? I want to take inventory right now and go find out what might I be holding on to that isn't serving me. How can we take action on that, evan, and inventory and be brutally honest with ourselves as to what may be stopping us right now. What may be stopping us right now? Discipline is a key component of this podcast and a key thing that we preach. We view discipline as the fuel to help you create the life that you ultimately desire, and discipline being the fuel that gets your habits and systems in check so that you can actually accomplish your goals.
Speaker 2:If you're looking to level up in 2025, I am happy to be a part of that and encourage you to join the Unshakeable Discipline Mastermind Group. This has been my baby for a couple years and we're finally launching it here in 2025. The group consists of a self-paced course that teaches you how to form core habits and mindset that will allow you to accomplish your goals. A daily accountability channel to keep you on track, motivated and in alignment with our members, and weekly mastermind sessions where you're going to learn from either myself or a suite of renowned guests many who have been on the podcast that are going to share pieces of their winning playbooks directly with you. I've learned that being a part of groups over the years has helped propel me to so many new levels in life.
Speaker 2:If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, then go together, and it's my wish that the Unshakable Crew is a choice that makes sense for you in 2025. We are growing up to 100 members this year and have limited time founding member pricing for 12 more folks before we permanently increase pricing to $97 a month. Be a part of the adventure that we're creating with our members. If you're somebody that craves discipline, seeks it or wants it this year, and you're really committed to making lasting changes in your life and being around others that are committed to winning and serving the world and sharing what they learn with others so that we make this world a better place, and sharing what they learn with others so that we make this world a better place, then join the Unshakeable crew. Go to unshakabledisciplinecom and you can sign up. It is also in the show notes Unshakeable shake, as in milkshake, unshakabledisciplinecom, and we're excited to have you in 2025. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Such a powerful question and actually it's a question actually. So we know, when we go into an interview, right, we're sitting in an interview and the person asking the questions usually is in the seat of influence, right, the interviewer, right, but ironically, self-exploratory questions. What is this all about? Why do I keep repeating these things? Verbal, as we say it, verbally, not thinking it, but verbal. When we ask self-exploratory questions, it puts us, the person in the seat of influence, so asking why do I keep doing that? What is going on here? Why do I feel so impulsive doing this? Why am I so angry? Now, oftentimes there's something called resistance, right. When we talk about psychological theory, right, it's like a vault in the back that you just can't get into. When we ask self-exploratory questions, it starts to stimulate the unconscious and the beauty about these questions. You don't have to answer them. We want to find the answer, right, because we want to find the cure, like this is going to help me. But as we take a walk in nature, like why am I doing this? Let it sit, let it stimulate your unconscious. Maybe two days it pops out, maybe in a dream it comes out. But we don't have to answer. We have to ask. The art of asking is very conscious, because when we try to force an answer, it's usually not the right answer. Let it sit. But you know, we talk about mindfulness and all these things when you sit down and ask yourself, like what am I doing here? That's why the art of writing right, journaling is so important. Right, it's a consciousness. Try to find something where you're asking yourself questions and giving yourself space, unconsciously, to figure it out. That is the greatest act of mindfulness. You know, when we sit there and we meditate, whatever you do, be quiet, just sit for a little bit. But really, the art of asking yourself questions is so powerful.
Speaker 1:As a coach, I'm not in any advice business. My business is to try to explore and uncover what those interferences are in order to leverage potential and boost performance. So, the more we're able you know we call it addition by subtraction. If I could take out some of the stuff that's holding us back, imagine what we can do. There are anchors in life. We all have them. We all have these resistances. We all have this conditioning. Give yourself time to explore it. I'm not saying stay scuba diving for the rest of your life. It could be a little snorkeling.
Speaker 1:But the difference between coaching and therapy is we marry the why and the how as we think about this, like why am I doing this? Our job as coaches is to start implementing new behaviors. So one of the things I do, you know, usually with clients and my old boss used to be like why are we doing this again? I said let's jump into the cold shower. People are like cold shower, why are we taking a cold shower? I don't want to do that. I know you don't want to do that, but I want to put you in a place where you now are doing something you don't want to do, even though we know how beneficial it is, but you're doing it anyway.
Speaker 1:That's a behavior shift. Who the hell wants to take the cold shit? We know dopamine six hours your brain. It's just incredible. I've done it for 15 years. I still hate it, but for me it's one of those things like you know what, if I could do this, what else am I capable of doing?
Speaker 1:It's a behavior shift. Once you start to believe, it like, wait a second, I can do that, I can do that. It builds evidence. So now, if we're consistent with that evidence, that builds confidence and now it's almost like all right, we're on the right track here.
Speaker 1:Not linear, right, things are going to come our way right. We can't time the delivery truck. That has obstacles, hurdles and challenges, but we sure as hell can get up footing fast. We know what exit to get off of. We build that confidence right. So when we always think positive, I think having a positive outlook and having a positive attitude is important. But positive psychology sometimes gets a bad rap, and the reason why is it can be toxic, because you know what we do live in reality. You know, ryan, I want the best for you but I can't guarantee that the delivery truck's not going to come. But I want to make sure that you can get your footing as fast as possible. But I want to make sure that you can get your footing as fast as possible, that we don't have to react. We're able to respond. We can feel the fear of this, of that. You take your breath, we get settled in and then we go To me.
Speaker 1:that's incredible. So in moments and those are opportunistic moments sometimes yeah, no-transcript. So how people thrive in those environments, that is mental performance.
Speaker 2:Are there any as it relates to the questions, one that I often ruminate on is what makes this thought that I'm having true. Is what makes this thought?
Speaker 2:that I'm having true or why am I? What's driving this thought? And sit with it for a while, and then sometimes I'll keep asking why and why and why so many times, to where you can then eventually discover the root cause. It's actually something that we do a lot in manufacturing. Why did we blow a hole? Well, we didn't have the root cause. It's actually something that we do a lot in manufacturing. Why did we blow a hole? Well, we didn't have the right tool. Why didn't we have the right tool? Well, there was no process for where the tool should go.
Speaker 2:And when we do that with our lives sometimes just even asking why and why and why and why you'll boil down to the root of what's driving a thought, a belief, and then you can examine it and rewire it. I mentioned that example and what I gathered from you. It occurs to me that, regardless of if we are, if we deem ourselves as high performance experts right now, or we're jumping on the train where this journey is new to us, constant self-inquiry and exploration is critical for everybody, regardless of what stage you're at. Are there some additional cornerstone questions or fundamental questions that, hey, if it was these one to two that everybody should constantly explore, it's these ones and I know it's not a one size fits all, but based off of what you found that helps people understand the most about themselves. What would those be?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, there's some great questions out there, but the most important thing is when we react, it's impulsive, it's a craving, right, it's just seconds really, whether it's alcohol, whether it's feeling defensive and reacting, we're talking like less than seconds. So why is it important to ask questions? So one of the greatest questions I ask what am I trying to accomplish here? Right, that in the moment, say you know, what am I trying to accomplish here? Right, that in the moment, say you know, what am I trying to accomplish? What's my mission? Right, that's an easy question.
Speaker 1:But when you get in that moment, is this good, is this good for me or bad for me? It's such a crazy question, right? Well, it's bad, all right, you give a little space, we won't do what we're about to do. Right, the odds of you reacting is mitigated. I can't guarantee that's not going to happen. Obviously I'm not foolish, but having that second.
Speaker 1:So the reason questions are so powerful is that we're recognizing that something's going on. We're no longer an autopilot going on, we're no longer an autopilot. So whatever question resonates with you like for me it's usually is this helping or hurting me? The simple act of asking. That puts space between how I feel and what I'm about to do. It makes me more conscious, right? So when you, by the way, your example, why am I using this tool? When we go practically down, why this, then why am I doing that? What does this mean to me? Those are brilliant, right, and, like I said, we may not know the answer.
Speaker 1:But when you start to be really go down the road of self-exploration, one, it's very scary, right. Sometimes we are not ready for the answer, and that's all right. It may not come up when you want it, but that's, you know, the self-exploration, the self-exploratory questions, the questions we ask ourselves, is just the act of consciousness, because, you know, I do believe we all want to get better. Some of us, unconsciously, don't think we deserve to get better, right? So when you have somebody like, of course, I want to be successful, unconsciously they don't, right, because there's a loyalty to somebody in their past, it's, it's. You know what. It sounds crazy, but it's true. So, whatever we're trying to achieve, what we're trying to accomplish, if all of a sudden there's hurdles and obstacles in your way, ask why am I feeling this way and how am I feeling, and why you start to do that? And this doesn't happen every day, everything. But you start to really build that awareness muscle and you attach a behavior to that where that feeling, an old feeling, has a new behavior.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, absolutely. And another thing that is present for me right now. What we're talking about is how do we influence our thought patterns, which then could trigger our beliefs or the actions we take. But another thing that I believe this plays into is what do we allow ourselves to hear, to hear and going into and here's an example of one that I've worked on rewiring that, and what I want what I'd like for you to do is think about what's a thought or what's something that you weren't able to hear before, or something that maybe people that you've helped weren't able to hear before, and talk through that process of then being able to actually hear something different.
Speaker 2:So, with my mom I love my mom to death. I was just talking about her on a podcast two days ago with a spiritual psychologist a podcast two days ago with a spiritual psychologist and I remember that as a kid and into my teenage years that if it's cold out, as an example, my mom would always say did you bring your jacket, did you bring your gloves? And it used to frustrate me so much loves, and it used to frustrate me so much because what I heard is I don't trust you to be an adult and to be independent and you're not capable of making decisions. Because I thought back to very early years when there were some people that told me I couldn't do things or that I didn't have the ability to accomplish something. So every time my mom would say something like that, I would get upset and I wasn't allowing myself to hear what I hear now, because now, being 32, I recognize that my mom will still to this day and for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2:If it's cold out, did you bring your jacket, ryan? Did you leave water running so the pipes don't freeze over and burst? What I hear now is it's just someone that's loving me right now. It's just somebody that loves me and is looking out for me. It's interesting and that took a lot of practice and a lot of work. That it wasn't just I made that decision and then the next time she called me and asked me about that, that, oh, it's someone that loves me yeah, but now I don't even think twice about oh, it's someone that doesn't trust me. So, as I bring that up, is there anything that has rang true for you with not being able to hear a certain message? And now you're able to? And what did that look like, because I believe that all plays into mental performance.
Speaker 1:It's a great question. Trying to shift through. You know, it's interesting. My mother raised, so I have a single. I was raised by a single mother. Excuse me, let me script more. So I have an identical twin brother and an older brother who was handicapped, passed away a couple years ago, and I was raised by a single mom, two jobs and my father wasn't around much and but he'd been married five times. I have seven brothers and sisters, three from my mom, there's four of us, I mean just ranging from 65 to 31.
Speaker 1:And he was a crack. He was a crackhead. He had been successful, homeless, all these things. So you know, growing up we didn't have a father figure ring, anything like that. And you know, being an alcoholic and a drug addict and things like that, you know I always thought drug addicts and alcoholics were mean, nasty, violent, and he was none of those. So I always felt bad for him and he was never in my life really, maybe up until I was 13, I'd seen him, but after that it was nothing. Never saw us play the cross or play soccer or anything like that. But it's ironic.
Speaker 1:As life continued, I started mimicking him, went to an Ivy League school, had some great friendships. All of a sudden, the drinking starts to pick up. What the fuck is that about Marriage? What just happened? All these things I'm like wait a second man. How in God's name am I following this guy? He's had no conscious impact on my life, but it's one of those things where I didn't know that I was literally looking at a car crash and I was about to go into it. It's man I didn't think had any impact on me, but the yearning for a father figure in my life, the yearning for to not be better than him Because I didn't want to show him up it sounds nuts, but all of a sudden I was trying to be. You know, it's such an interesting thing. I was trying to be loyal to him, like I didn't want to be better than him. I want to do what he did. How nuts is that?
Speaker 1:And it literally took me until I was, I think, your age to say wait a second. And it literally took me until I was, I think, your age to say wait a second. How in God's name am I going to get in this car and I can see the car crash. I have this school, I'm with a great firm, I'm at a hedge fund. Things are going well and I'm about to throw this all away. For what?
Speaker 1:So you know, it's your story, it's a different side of it, but I'm like how this makes no sense to me. So you know, when we talk about people in general, sometimes this stuff doesn't make any sense. And there is this tie, this unconscious tie, this well, obviously, ryan put a jacket on. That shouldn't really affect your feelings. It's your mother. She don't want you to be cold, but you're taking, like you don't trust me. Like, well, that doesn't make any sense. She's just telling you to put a coat on. But this is your experience. This is how you feel. This is how you're triggered.
Speaker 1:Like I tell this to people, like are you kidding me? I said I swear to God it's a true story. Like, but I don't see that. But you're not me, you're not living my experience. Like I'm not living your experience.
Speaker 1:And once we are able to put a spotlight and see what it is, you're like, wow. And if I can take this a step further, this is why I got into this business, because how, in God's name, can a man who did shit for me, nothing, have such a profound impact on my behavior, how I had an incredible mother why you start going down that rabbit hole. You start to become a student of how you think, how you behave and, to be quite honest, that's how I got into coaching. I'm like how in God's name is this happening to me? This man never saw. He went to the wrong school to see his play across. He went to Penn State instead of UPenn. He had no idea we went to school.
Speaker 1:Why is there such a profound influence on my behavior? So we have to work through these things. Right, you know, like there's a possibility, like we're acting a certain way because of this. So why not ask questions, get more curious and figure out? We don't have to stay there the whole time. But like, is there a possibility that I'm doing these things unconsciously? And if the answer is yes, let me tell you. If you think you're the problem, you sure as hell can be part of the solution. That's right. And when you're able to move and trust yourself, it's one of the most profound feelings ever. Nobody's perfect Nobody.
Speaker 2:I know that for a fact, and a lot of this is coming back to exploring curiosity and that really being a key component in mental performance. Talk through, since you have a talk coming up about this, what's the relationship between curiosity and mental performance, as we are learning all about how to cultivate more mental performance in this discussion. How do those two feed each other?
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for the segue, by the way. So I'm doing a TEDx talk, hopefully in the next couple of months. We're trying to find the venue now about curiosity and mental performance. So when we think about curiosity right, curiosity in its essence is information seeking. That's what it means. So how does it affect mental performance and how does it excuse me, play into mental performance? Well, let's just think about it.
Speaker 1:If I said to you, I'm curious to see if we start this company, if we start this practice, what could it look like? You'd be like, I don't know, let's go see, as opposed to let's go start this. Well, you know we could fail, we may not win. This may take longer than we think, but if you're curious, it almost goes around that resistance of well, my father failed. I've learned this that you don't take risks, because if you take risks, bad things happen. But if you get curious and say you know what, let me see, the intensity of the fear of dot dot dot is lessened Because I'm interested. That alone opens up so many different paths for you to take, because you know what? We may be wrong. Well, yeah, I'm just curious Courtesy of what happens. And so now, as you forge ahead. That opens doors of possibilities Because, hey, listen, by the way, we may be wrong. All right, let's see what it looks like, let's gather information. So, as we gather information, you know what. That didn't work. However, I think this could work, and now the way we wire our brain is so materially different.
Speaker 1:Ryan, let's go do this. Well, you know, I'm just curious. Worst case scenario we fail. All right, I'll give. I don't know, ev, what happens if it fails? Well, it may fail.
Speaker 1:Let's get curious and see what happens. It is one of those things and I'm sure I mean we've obviously done research on this, but it goes back to the words we use and how we reframe things and how we choose to look at things. Like, I started M1. I know nothing about social media, never been on a podcast before last year, anything. So my wife said what do you think? I said I have no idea. I said I'm going to give it a go. She goes what's the worst case scenario? That I don't do it? Right, but I'm curious to see. I'm curious to learn. I know it's not linear, but I know I'm going to learn a lot. What a great mindset. It's not void of sailing, it's not, but it gives you better probabilities of success. You know why? Because you're actually going to go and try to do it. Because if you don't try to do it, the probability of success is zero. Amazing.
Speaker 2:It's incredible. One of my favorite books is the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, and in there it talks about the first agreement really being the power of your word and being your word A component of performance is absolutely powerful language, because language is the creator of all things. Language is what created M1. Language is what created this podcast. Language, both spoken word and unspoken word, can be the difference maker between what enables us to take action or sit on the sidelines and believe that we can't do whatever it is that we absolutely can do. What are some words or phrases that you believe we should absolutely eliminate from our being, because they ultimately stop us or hold us back versus push us forward? Let me, let me, let me, let me. Can I twist that a little bit?
Speaker 1:How about? I'm going to go. Instead of that, I'm going to go the other way. So these are things that we should be saying to ourselves. These are things that what we know, the can'ts, I'm not capable, I'm not ready. When I have this, I'll do this. When I feel this way, I'll behave this way, but we know that let's switch it right, because we want to start thinking. We want to start feeding ourselves. Well, I. Let's switch it right Because we want to start thinking. We want to start feeding ourselves. Well, I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet.
Speaker 1:I'll get there. Yet how about this one, nike, just do it. People think the biggest word in that three-word slogan is do. But it's not, it's just Right, do it is. Everybody knows it. Just do it. Give. It's not, it's just Right, do it. As everybody knows it. Just do it. Give it a go. That word just is massive.
Speaker 1:The words we use, right, because we know the brain doesn't know can and can't. We've heard this since we're like little babies. Right, don't say can, it doesn't know the difference, yada, yada, yada. But let's start feeding ourselves.
Speaker 1:Well, this is extremely challenging. What else am I capable of telling people Right? All of a sudden, like you know, unfortunately in my life right now, my dog's extremely sick, my mother has cancer and I feel extremely overwhelmed. Okay, alright, ev, you're entitled to feel the way you feel. But what do we need to do today? All right, I can't shake off the sadness, I can't shake off the worry, but what do I need to do? Excuse me, what do I need to do today in order to keep me going in the right direction? It's these things Not like oh man, this sucks, no, shit sucks. What do I need to be doing? What words do I need to use to keep me moving.
Speaker 1:I am not void of feeling sad. I am not void of feeling whatever I want to feel, but it doesn't help me if those feelings get onto the field and I'm stagnant. I'm allowed to feel whatever the hell I want. I'm allowed to grieve, I'm allowed to feel sad. I'm allowed to have my moment. But what do I need to do? Like, those are big moments, right? So it is the words we use.
Speaker 1:I can't believe this is happening to me. It is All right. What do I want to do with it? How can I? You know, it's not always getting better. But what do I need to do to keep moving forward? Right, because that does build resilience, it does build empathy, it does build compassion, but it really is a mirror. Like you know what man? I'm allowed to feel, how I want to feel, but I also have the ability, the courage, the strength, the fortitude, the resilience, the perseverance to keep going. That's important, but it's important to feel it. I feel very sad, I feel very nervous, but I need to get my clarity. I need to share it with people who I love and respect. This is how I'm feeling right now and have my moment, but I need to feed myself well.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you sharing that. It's okay to feel and when we think about high performance, I believe it can often create this misconception that the highest performers are always in elevated states and, while there's some validity to that assumption that, hey, maybe it's not always in an elevated state, but they're not going to allow themselves to be drugged down, but they're not going to allow themselves to be drugged down and they might be in an elevated state, or rather, they might be doing amazing things, but they're still human and it's okay to feel sad. Because I believe there's also this thought that, okay, once you commit to this lifestyle and you do all these things that Evan's talking about, that you're going to be a robot and you're always going to be on top of the world, and that's just not the case and it's okay to not always feel that way. So I appreciate that you brought some light to that.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that you brought some light to that. You have to give yourself permission to feel and actually having the ability to do that. We talk about these perceived negative emotions rage, anger, frustration, embarrassment being judged. We have the ability to use the intensity of those emotions to actually propel us forward. Right, emotions have energy. Right, we have energy. How do we use that intensity to propel us forward, to give us better clarity, to get us in that quote-unquote elevated state, like you know, for me, like my mother used to call it, we played lacrosse and soccer with what she called controlled rage, controlled anger, right, like one of the greatest places to take it out on the field. But it was controlled. It was a great healthy outcome. It was so.
Speaker 1:How do we use these emotions that just died? How do we use them to our benefit? You have to give yourself that permission to feel. We're human beings. We're going to feel sad, we're going to feel joy, we're going to feel anger, we're going to feel happiness. It's a feeling. Feel the Roy G Bibbs or the rainbow of these emotions. But know one thing though we really have the opportunity and the power to choose how we want to behave. That's right. Again and again and again, that's the best part you can literally let go of the world. We don't have to play tug-of-war with these emotions. They are what they are. I can't control them, but we can definitely choose how we want to behave, and that really creates different experiences and new circuits in the brain, and that's an incredible thing.
Speaker 2:I believe we could sum up a lot of what we're talking about into one sentence that we all possess the power to create more than we could ever believe possible. More than we could ever believe possible. And, if I were to throw one more in there, that we also possess all of the ability right now to explore and understand the answers to what it is that really drives us, and we can also manipulate that to the way that we envision serving us best. Evan, this has been a phenomenal conversation.
Speaker 2:Our closing tradition on the podcast is a rapid fire session and the way this works is, envision that you and I are going to lunch at a really cool spot up in New York and we're going up three elevator floors. So as we go up each floor, someone's going to get on the elevator and they recognize you. They're going to ask you one question. The amount of time you have to answer this question is the amount of time it takes to go up one elevator floor. All right, so this is one gem. One step, one book. So first person gets on. Evan, what's one gem that you have, whether it be a quote or a mantra that you live your life by, that I can put in my back pocket and perhaps live my life by as well.
Speaker 1:Remember tomorrow. Remember what you do today affects tomorrow. Next one Remember tomorrow, like it matters.
Speaker 2:Haven't heard that one before? Awesome. Next person gets on. That's the end. Click. Next person gets on Right. Awesome, Next person gets on. Next person gets on Evan. What's?
Speaker 1:one step that I can take today to become more mentally tough Be conscious of your breath. When we're conscious of breathing, take four in, eight out. We manipulate our nervous system. Breath is obviously extremely important, but it's also an incredible act of consciousness.
Speaker 2:Last person, Evan. What's one book that we can read in 2025 to bolster our mindsets and become better, higher performers?
Speaker 1:I think Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl when we talk about triggers and stimulus and space presence, freedom, power, and then action and response, it's one of the greatest books I've ever read. It's had the most profound impact on me Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.
Speaker 2:It's a the most profound impact on me Man's search for meaning. It's a phenomenal book. Evan, this has been a blast and we'll have everything, all of your information linked in the notes. Folks, keep up with Evan and all of the amazing work that he's doing with M1 Performance Group. Remember that we all possess the power to create our greatest lives. We all possess the ability to be high performers and when we are highly conscious of the unconscious, we can really explore and experience our greatest selves and win today. Thanks so much.
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