Win Today
Win Today is a performance enhancing podcast filled with actionable insights and inspiration to come out on top in life. Through captivating interviews and solo episodes, a powerful tool is created and given to listeners to be able to push through any situation in life.
Hosted by Ryan Cass, he delivers messages that align to his purpose of helping people establish a foundation for sustained success, break trends of adversity, and chart desirable courses for life. Win Today!
Win Today
#192 | Finding Liberation In Your Pain Points: A Journey Of Spiritual Psychology Ft. Patricia Noelle
Childhood trauma doesn't have to define your future—it can become the catalyst for profound transformation. Spiritual psychologist Patricia Noel shares her remarkable journey from surviving severe childhood trauma and losing two sisters to addiction and suicide to becoming a beacon of healing for others around the world.
Patricia reveals a game-changing approach to processing emotional triggers: when you experience a visceral reaction, trace it back to your earliest childhood memory of feeling that same way, then comfort that younger version of yourself. This practice allows you to rewire neural pathways that have been running on outdated programming for decades. "Don't waste a good trigger," she advises, "because they are your path to healing and freedom."
The conversation explores how psychedelic-assisted therapy can accelerate healing by allowing access to parts of ourselves traditional therapy might take years to reach. Using the metaphor of "opening all the tabs on your computer," Patricia explains how these experiences help process and integrate traumatic memories that run in the background of our lives. She addresses common misconceptions about psychedelics, emphasizing the importance of proper guidance and setting.
Most powerfully, Patricia demonstrates that our trauma responses aren't random—they're predictable patterns stemming from our earliest experiences. Whether it's fear of abandonment, perfectionism, or chronic anxiety, these protective mechanisms served us as children but often limit us as adults. Through her work in Africa with orphaned children and with high-performing individuals hitting invisible ceilings in their lives, she shows that the path to freedom lies in compassionate self-understanding.
What if your dream life is just a few feet away, but you're being held back by experiences you've framed as happening "to" you rather than "for" you? Patricia's story proves that no matter what circumstances you've lived through, healing is possible and the life you envision is within reach—if you're willing to do the work.
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All of our traumatic responses or all anything that has a big trigger. So when you have a life experience and it is like this visceral, you know, take your breath away or make your heart start pounding. If you can sit and tap into whatever is happening in your body or the monkey mind, that's going crazy and you can rewind that tape to your earliest childhood experience of feeling that way and you can go and comfort that younger part of you Perhaps it was a six-year-old, shaking like a leaf at the door, with the police officer there, and you hold him in your arms and you comfort him and let him know you're safe, I've got you, we're okay, I'm at the helm now, I'm okay. You know and that's what I was saying about doing psychedelics is that that part of us that innately knows we're lovable, even if someone were to leave us. We know we would be okay. So, you know, I think one of the most important things is going back, really sitting with the body when we have those triggers.
Speaker 2:And you know, don't waste a good trigger, because they are your path to healing and freedom the traumatic things that you did and mentioned at the very beginning between your teenage pregnancy or abusive parents, incest, experiencing those things. What did you have to say to her?
Speaker 1:Well, I believe we all are born into this world so perfect, and I firmly believe that we all have our own unique blueprint of what we're meant to do in the world, no matter what. And so for me, it's just going back and having the conversation with her of you're perfect, this wasn't about you. You know, this is what got acted out, you know, out of their own unhealed trauma and wounds, but to reassure her that there's nothing wrong with her by what she's had to live through and experience.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the WIT Today podcast, a weekly resource thoughtfully crafted to help people build and refine discipline, accomplish their goals, fortify their mindsets and be of service to somebody in this world. My name is Ryan Cass and I am your host, and it is my mission and commitment to deliver amazing episodes to you every week where you'll learn from myself or renowned expert in their field. We love helping people win in every aspect of their lives, and you can help us win by sharing the show with somebody that you believe will benefit from it, subscribing and leaving a rating and review. We believe that everybody in this world is meant to do something great with their lives and we're here to help play a role in that. Thank you for tuning in and let's win today.
Speaker 2:What if the life that you ultimately envisioned and believe that you deserve for yourself is far closer than you could ever possibly imagine? What if your dream is just a few feet away, but you may be being held back by limiting beliefs or experiences that you see as something that happened to you versus something that happened for you? We have Patricia Noel with us today, who is a leading spiritual psychologist that helps people see the gifts and experience the limitless potential and possibilities that exist right now for your lives, and she is also an author and a psychedelic guide, has done amazing things in this world, has given back to children in Africa and wears so many hats, all in the name of making people better and inspiring the world. Patricia, welcome.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Such a gift and honor to be here, and thank you for that gracious introduction. You know one thing that has always inspired me, that my kind of slogan is it does not matter what circumstances you've lived through. Healing is possible and having the life of your dreams is also possible, and you know, I think I'm a living testament to that. So thank you for such an appropriate introduction.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's absolutely warranted. And what you said right there, let's roll with that. What led you to be able to say what you just did right there and brought you to that discovery?
Speaker 1:for your life. Yeah, 2017, I lost a sister to fentanyl overdose. In 2023, I lost a sister to suicide and I've had so many obstacles along the way that could have prevented me from wanting to go on. And you know, it's interesting before my sister died, she said I don't understand. You keep saying, like, what does it mean to do the work? And to me, doing the work is that the only way out is through, and part of that process for me is to actually look back and reflect on parts of our childhood, heal through those, and then I think the greatest gift that we can give in the world is to be of service in the world.
Speaker 2:Amen to that and I'm sorry for what you've experienced there with your family, and that just caught my heart there, as you were saying that we mentioned some cool things about you and the work that you're doing now, but what do you believe is most important for the world to know about? Patricia Noel?
Speaker 1:Patricia Noel. Well, I always tell everyone that my heart is in Africa. In 2017, I went through three tragic and sudden deaths of a dear friend my sister and sister-in-law and I called a dear friend of mine and I said I know the only way through this is to be of service. And she said pack your bags and go to Africa and through my efforts there, you know I thought I was going to go be of service to them and really what ended up happening is this community and village held me in my grief and taught me how to process that in community. So my heart and soul is in Africa. We now have 150 orphans that we support there in Tororo, uganda, but, aside from that, really to support others and the way that I kind of look at it is, I'm not your healer, but I'm holding your hand through your healing, so you're not alone, and I think that's so important as people go back and experience some of their childhood trauma to not feel alone and to be completely supported.
Speaker 2:Hmm, I love what you said about how you went to Africa to serve and then you ended up really feeling served yourself by this amazing community, and I believe that's so important because we can learn something from anybody in this life.
Speaker 2:I've been a big brother for several years now through Big Brothers, big Sisters of America, and I love to be able to give back to the younger version of me with understands that what they're going through is actually going to be something that serves them, and I'm going to teach him all of these different things.
Speaker 2:Being a big brother for about eight years is I learned just as much from them, if not more, than I'm possibly giving to them. We hold common ground in that trauma has shaped us and we also hold common ground with many listeners that many people in this world, if not everybody, has been impacted by at least one or multiple significant events, whether that be abuse, family issues, losing someone suddenly. We've all likely faced a wide gamut of experiences and, as we were talking before, a lot of people go through this life and hold on to trauma negatively and not convert pain, pain into triumph. You've helped countless individuals break free from limiting beliefs that have been a result of early childhood trauma. What do you believe is the way that people can really begin to recognize what's truly holding them back and start dismantling that, so that they can start to experience the possibilities that they do have for their life and begin to live their life that they ultimately deserve?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's such a good question. I lived a life of perfectionism and being stoic for a lot of years and I didn't really have a lot of conscious awareness of my childhood trauma until I was in my 30s and had a myriad of events that kind of catapulted me into a healing crisis, as you might say, and I really believe that the first step to healing is to have awareness. What actually happened? How can we go back and have compassion for ourself and also realize that those involved with whatever happened in our lives they were doing the best that they could with the tools and resources that they have? And so I think always when I look at this as the first step is to have that conscious awareness and I recognize that a lot of people have a lot of fear into going into the past?
Speaker 2:Right yeah, right yeah, right yeah. Do you feel that there's a lot of people that you've worked with and that are fearful of even diving back into the past because of what they may discover?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I work with a lot of influential, highly successful individuals that realize they're getting to a point in their life or their career, their marriages or their relationships with their kids and all of a sudden, there's a threshold that they can't break through right. And so, you know, one of the tools and powerful modalities that I work with are psychedelics. It was, you know, my path that really, you know, catapulted my healing, and one of the things that happened when I started working with psychedelics is I was able to go back to some of these childhood, earlier experiences and really understand how those behavior patterns had played out throughout the course of my life and really course correct, because I think oftentimes, if we don't understand why we're driven by you know, I mean for you, you know, exercise, or you know porn, addiction, alcoholism I lost two sisters to you know know, addiction, and if we don't really understand why and what it is that we're numbing, it's so hard for us to fully and radically heal.
Speaker 1:And so psychedelics have been a powerful tool in allowing someone to actually go back and visit some of these earlier childhood experiences in a safe container. And I think another fear that people have is they're afraid if I go look at it, am I going to be stuck there? Will I?
Speaker 1:be, stuck in the sadness or the depression? Will I be stuck in that feeling of when I lost a parent? I wasn't able to process that grief, and so I think it's another you know element that holds people back from actually going back and looking at their past.
Speaker 2:Hmm, I know that spiritual psychology and psychedelics are a large portion of your work and you mentioned the psychedelics being key in your healing. So, given how malleable our minds are and the way I look at the mind is that it's basically a piece of software that is running and, just like a computer, we can download programs that will help us achieve outcomes faster or eliminate certain steps or eliminate certain thought patterns. And, just like a computer as well, we also have. There's viruses that can impact us, or we'll call it the limiting beliefs, or we've had bad programs that are just sitting here, but we have the power to resolve them and eradicate them. Rather, is ayahuasca and the various psychedelics? Do they help achieve those outcomes much faster? Or what's the differentiating factor or factors of the psychedelic techniques versus your normal understand why you believe in what you believe in and work through traditional modalities and therapy?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I love that you're using this analogy because it's one I often use. So you know, for me I had spent years in talk therapy and never really got to the's. Almost like these files get opened and imagine that you open your computer and you realize you've got several files running in the background. You have all these tabs that are open and your computer is kind of bogged down and slow. So psychedelics are kind of like opening all those tabs on the computer and one by one we start to close them and oftentimes when you go through a psychedelic experience it can be 20, 30, 40 years that you're processing of trauma and it's kind of like you know also taking a snow globe and shaking a snow globe up and all of a sudden that freshly fallen snow.
Speaker 1:The brain has the ability to rewire these new circuit. You know these new patterns in the brain and so oftentimes someone brain and so oftentimes someone you know there's been a lot with. You know eating disorders and ketamine. It's not so much that they have to go back and process all of their childhood trauma. Sometimes it's a matter of giving the brain a new neuro pathway and all of a sudden those triggers or addictive behaviors kind of subside and our operating system, or also known as our brain, starts operating more effectively. You know I'm curious. May I ask you a few questions about your childhood?
Speaker 1:please yeah so what about? Or when did you know that you had healing that you needed to do? From your childhood?
Speaker 2:When I discovered or when I was able to really put a name around healing, rather in my early 20s, when I understood that I had a fear of abandonment and wanted to stay away from relationships because of some things that I saw with my parents growing up and really developing an anxious attachment style. Developing an anxious attachment style so early 20s is when I come to recognize that I have this fear of abandonment that does not want me to commit to any woman, because I don't want to encounter the same thing that I saw growing up, because I programmed that all right relationship equals bad things happen, equals you get left, you get cheated on. And I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1:So I'm. This is such a. I love this. Thank you so much because I think it's such an important example.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that happens when doing psychedelic experiences is you would be able to go back to those inciting incidences that happened with your mom and dad, be able to see how that played out and then what you did.
Speaker 1:You know I love the work of I studied under Gabor Mate and he says trauma isn't what happens to you, it's what you make it mean about you from what happened to you, right. So you created this narrative that you know probably love isn't safe. Someone will leave me, whatever your narrative is, and so psychedelics can go back to the root and help you rewire that, without spending the years and years and therapy that we often do trying to understand ourselves better and I think also to you know, for addiction even. You know you spoke that you came from a household where there was a lot of drinking involved, right, where there was a lot of drinking involved right. And to help those, you know, rewiring those neural pathways, and I've just watched so many people over the course of supporting others on their healing journeys to be able to overcome addictive tendencies as well.
Speaker 2:So if I took what you said and if I provide a more specific example because this is one that I do share frequently is whether it's on the podcast or in keynote speeches about the night that I discovered that this gift was given to me of you going to the gift now that I use now to inspire people and teach people about developing discipline and systems, so that you know they don't go down the road that maybe they were exposed to. But it's also the same night that, if I were to trace everything back to my hesitancies and beliefs that I just explained, there would and I'll explain the night. I'm six years old. It's a what is going to be a normal night of my father coming home late from the restaurant intoxicated. My mom is feeling off that day. I know that something's up, because one thing I'm grateful for with this experience is it helped develop a very strong intuition that I could tell just by how loud the music was in my dad's car and how fast he was driving home, like what type of night we were going to have. And this particular night he comes home. I've got my ear up against the door just waiting and, sure enough, hear a loud boom in my parents' room. I run in there. There's a hole in the wall. My dad's fist had just gone through it, angry. I look over to the bathroom. My mom is crying and yelling in the bathroom that she had just found out that my dad was cheating on her.
Speaker 2:And the rest of that night, over the course of a few hours, continued to escalate. The police show up at our home and I'm answering the door, six years old, shaking like a leaf, and they're wondering why, what's going on here? And I remember responding my mom's upset about some woman, but I don't really know what's going on. But that same night, patricia, I also made a promise to myself that I'm never going to carry this on and I'm never going to put my future family through this. And the buck stops with me. Now. Those preceding years there were still similar nights like that, but it's that one particular night. I mean, if we wanted to, I could paint every little picture of it, of well, what if this person leaves me? Or what if this person is not faithful to me? Would psychedelics be able to bring me back to that exact moment and help take those programs out that I just mentioned, or those little inklings that come up from time to time and just completely rid them away.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's so many. I have so many things to say. I mean, first, thank you so much for sharing that, and I think something that's really unique about your experience that I just wanna highlight is that in that moment where you were simultaneously getting programmed of this internal fear, which I would imagine a part of your athleticism and things like that, you move trauma out of your body through movement. And so when you say that you went and you were standing at the door shaking like a leaf, we store that trauma in our DNA. And there was something that also struck me about what you said is, from that inciting incident, you knew that you were going to take this and and have this experience that you were having and have it be for good.
Speaker 1:I felt the same way as a child, you know, and oftentimes people are like, why are you writing a book and why are you doing a film? It's like because I know I didn't live through all of this for nothing. I mean that I do enjoy using is MDMA. It's not a psychedelic, but it allows you to have such deep compassion for yourself and whomever was there in that environment. So perhaps you could see your father, his own childhood trauma where here.
Speaker 1:He doesn't know how to regulate his own emotions and so it comes out. You know I had very physically abusive parents as well and I think that part of you that has run that program in your mind, that has run that program in your mind that women aren't safe or relationships aren't safe or will I be cheated on, it can anchor you to this place inside of you that allows you to know so intimately your own lovability that it doesn't matter what the outside world does, it doesn't matter if someone cheats on you or leaves you or any of that. Your own internal lovability is so refined and honed in that the rest of it doesn't really matter because you know innately you'll be, okay, in those times when that shows up for you, what happens internally inside of you?
Speaker 1:Is it an anxiety response? Do you have a somatic experience of it? Is it just the monkey mind that takes over?
Speaker 2:Knowing what I know now and really focusing on inner work and being in the work, I have conditioned myself to recognize it for one and two. Okay, what am I really feeling here? And I often then will question like one thing I've programmed myself to question if I have a feeling of, oh, patricia's cheating on me, what makes that true? What evidence do I have right now, in this moment, that that is true? Or am I just making up a story? Because I believe it's so easy to create these false narratives in our minds and then we run with it is true.
Speaker 2:And then let's say, you come home, you're just at the grocery store and I would have put myself through this entire anxiety attack for what and I did in my before I learned about the work and inner work that was a man. This is me being probably as vulnerable as I've been lately on the show. That was what would happen. I would make up stories and then run with them as true and justify them because sure and sure as hell, the thoughts that I had when my dad was off doing his thing or wasn't coming home on time ended up being true. But does that mean it's the outcome for everybody else, or every thought, no, when it does come and visit me periodically now, or if I have a limiting thought about something else in life, I ponder what evidence do I have that supports this and it really helps me snap out of it.
Speaker 1:I love. I listened to your podcast this morning about negative thinking and you talked a lot about that. I don't know if Byron Katie was a resource for you about doing the work and understanding. If our thoughts are true, Is she someone that you've read you?
Speaker 2:know what's interesting is, I literally just got that book from Byron Katie. Because, fast forward to the last question I'm going to ask you is one book besides yours, but we'll remember that here and again in a minute. Yeah, but I had a friend of mine, chris Doris, on the podcast. Chris is he's brand himself as the mental toughness coach. He works with a lot of athletes, primarily golfers, pga Tour golfers, with golf being such a mental game that it is, and we talked a lot about the work. I just had him on recently and he mentioned Byron Katie's book Way of being as his top read for 2025. So it's sitting there.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, so I have become quite fascinated with you. Know, we are human beings, but really we're just beings and I have been looking at at, or rather studying and exploring who am I being right now? Not okay, like who am I being? Like I'm not being a podcaster, sure, but who am I being right now is in what am I putting out into the world? I'd say right now, I believe right now I'm being inspiring and insightful for others, and the more that we make ourselves a science experiment, I believe, the more free that we can become. What would you add to that. Is my logic flawed or is it in line with the work?
Speaker 2:Discipline is a key component of this podcast and a key thing that we preach. We view discipline as the fuel to help you create the life that you ultimately desire, and discipline being the fuel that gets your habits and systems in check so that you can actually accomplish your goals. If you're looking to level up in 2025, I am happy to be a part of that and encourage you to join the Unshakable Discipline Mastermind Group. This has been my baby for a couple years and we're finally launching it here in 2025. The group consists of a self-paced course that teaches you how to form core habits and mindset that will allow you to accomplish your goals. A daily accountability channel to keep you on track, motivated and in alignment with our members, and weekly mastermind sessions where you're going to learn from either myself or a suite of renowned guests many who have been on the podcast that are going to share pieces of their winning playbooks directly with you. I've learned that being a part of groups over the years has helped propel me to so many new levels in life.
Speaker 2:If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, then go together and it's my wish that the Unshakable Crew is a choice that makes sense for you in 2025. We are growing up to 100 members this year and have limited time founding member pricing for 12 more folks before we permanently increase pricing to $97 a month. You can get in now for $67 a month, locked in for life, and be a part of the adventure that we're creating with our members. If you're somebody that craves discipline, seeks it or wants it this year, and you're really committed to making lasting changes in your life and being around others that are committed to winning and serving the world and sharing what they learn with others so that we make this world a better place, then join the Unshakeable crew. Go to unshakabledisciplinecom and you can sign up. It is also in the show notes Unshakable shake, as in milkshake, unshakabledisciplinecom, and we're excited to have you in 2025. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, for me it's a matter of surrender, when I can get out of my own way and tune in.
Speaker 1:One of the things that you touched on that's so important is that children of childhood abuse.
Speaker 1:They learn to be highly intuitive and almost clairvoyant, like I bet that you can walk into a room and assess a room like that and you know kind of what the energy of the room is right. And so for me I feel like if I can get out of my own way and surrender and be in flow with the universe, it'll send me and guide me exactly where I'm meant to be and the timeline that I'm meant to be on. Where I'm meant to be in the timeline that I'm meant to be on. And I think, so long as we can do the work of always, you know, having that level of self inquiry and connecting with the inner counselor inside of us, I mean, yeah, of course you can be. You know your own human experience in this thing called life and I think a misnomer that actually comes up a lot is that healing has to be hard, and I think one thing that I've witnessed through your podcasts and your teaching is that through simple models and methods it can actually be really rewarding and quite fun.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and, on that note, that's where I was going. As you were responding there, I was thinking what frameworks do you have? Or, if you ever encounter yourself having a negative thought or a trauma response, have you developed your own framework or list of steps to understand and then redirect so that you can get back to center and ultimately being in alignment with whatever it is that you desire life to be?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. I think I take an individualized approach, but I think there's one thing, specifically that is an absolute game changer. Let's go back, because you've already highlighted it and I don't have to tell another story of a traumatic experience Someone cheats on you, your girlfriend cheats on you. You go to that initial place of reaffirming the child that thought that he would be left or abandoned or whatever. It is, in my opinion, all of our traumatic responses or anything that has a big trigger.
Speaker 1:So when you have a life experience and it is like this visceral, you know, take your breath away or make your heart start pounding. If you can sit and tap into whatever is happening in your body or the monkey mind, that's going crazy and you can rewind that tape to your earliest childhood experience of feeling that way, to your earliest childhood experience of feeling that way, and you can go and comfort that younger part of you Perhaps it was a six-year-old shaking like a leaf at the door, with the police officer there, and you hold him in your arms and you comfort him and let him know you're safe, I've got you, we're okay, I'm at the helm now, I'm okay. And that's what I was saying about doing psychedelics. Is that, that part of us that innately knows we're lovable. Even if someone were to leave us, we know we would be okay. So I think one of the most important things is going back really sitting with the body when we have those triggers. And you know, don't waste a good trigger, because they are your path to healing and freedom.
Speaker 2:Is it possible for somebody to have multiple events or does it always go back to? Is there one call it cornerstone event that all of this really comes back to? You know, I think about that night. It wasn't the only one, but it was definitely a cornerstone night and experience early on. And you know I it was interesting, given that with PTSD in soldiers, if 100 soldiers went to war then 80 of them would come back with PTSD because of events that traced all the way back to their childhood. It wasn't necessarily what they saw during wartime, not to say that wasn't significant, because I can only imagine and same thing with folks that were in the Nazi camps. It goes all the way back. So is it typically always the one, or is it multiple, that people need to go back and really understand and sit with?
Speaker 1:It's such a good question. So you know, I often use the analogy. You and your mom are walking down the street, you're six years old, you're in Arizona, it's 115 degrees out in the summer heat, and you walk by an ice cream parlor and you're like mommy, mommy, let's go in. So you go into the ice cream parlor and you come back out and you and your mom both have an ice cream and you're strolling down this, the sidewalk, in the summer heat, and all of a sudden the ice cream starts dripping all over your hands and your mom grabs it and she licks around the ice cream really quick. You go into hysterics and from that inciting incident it's like I never get what I want, I'm not enough, I'm incapable of doing it on my own Right. So do I think that there's one big inciting incident that can happen that really changes someone's life forever, absolutely, you know. But also those little T traumas, the little nuanced ones I often find when people get into psychedelic experiences, so many times it's the little T traumas that they didn't even know informed their behavior for the rest of their life. And so, in my opinion, I think it can be both, because it's all in, how is it that I have lost two sisters to addiction, suicide, et cetera.
Speaker 1:And yet for me I wanted to go on to inspire others to actually do their healing work. It's how those experiences of earlier childhood impacted them, like for me. I always much like yourself, at six years old it was like no, I'm going to be the one that stops us, I'm going to be the one who talks about it. You know, yesterday I had a friend say to me you know, why do you want to keep talking about it? Why do you want to write a book Like do you want to be a victim forever? And it was kind of interesting because I sat back and said what about people's truths makes you feel uncomfortable? Because I'm doing it. So people know that, no matter what, you can heal anything that's happened to you in your life.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful. In your journey, patricia, and especially with your tracing back your experiences through psychedelics and going back, what did you tell younger patricia that experienced the traumatic things that you did and mentioned at the very beginning between your teenage pregnancy or abusive parents, incest, experiencing those things what did you have to say to her?
Speaker 1:Oh, I love the question. Well, I believe we all are born into this world so perfect, and I firmly believe that we all have our own unique blueprint of what we're meant to do in the world, no matter what. And so for me, it's just going back and having the conversation with her of you're perfect, this wasn't about you, this is what got acted out out of their own unhealed trauma and wounds, but to reassure her that there's nothing wrong with her by what she's had to live through and experience through the abuse of people in her life, and it also doesn't have to define you.
Speaker 1:I mean you're walking living proof right now of you've lived through such instability where a child deserves to have instability that I would imagine. For a lot of years you struggled with some form of anxiety because you are trying to constantly regulate your internal nervous system, because it never got regulated with your parents right, and so now you found these coping strategies to help you along the way, and one of the things that you do so brilliantly with your clients is to create structure and order and discipline, which also helps nervous system regulation. There's dependability, there's consistency, there's desired outcomes and you know I mean such an incredible path for someone to follow to achieve results Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you believe it's tough for some people to hear Because, as you mentioned, even with the some of the people that were involved in in your traumas and and, as mentioned, even with my dad and I absolutely love him to death We've got an amazing relationship now. But I also recognize and I agree with you, that, as unfortunate as the circumstances were, he was doing the best he could with the tools he had, and when I first heard someone tell me that I thought that's bullshit. Now, what are we? Are we justifying? Are we justifying what these people did? And that's not what that means? Yeah, but what's some advice, that or insight that you can provide around that that a lot of what people do is it's driven by something but hurt people, hurt people and are often doing the best they can with the tools that they were given to them.
Speaker 1:Because that's kind of tough to hear sometimes that they were given to them, because that's kind of tough to hear sometimes. You know, I'm in a deep process of this right now and when my sister, jacqueline, passed away in 2023, I thought I had kind of done all my work around this and then you lose a loved one and you're like wait a second. It kind of took me back to my childhood again. I think it also intersects forgiveness for me when you bring that up, because it's not to let them off the hook. It's a matter of having compassion for ourselves and others.
Speaker 1:And I think there's a really key ingredient to this and that's boundaries, because it's not that, oh, you know, hurt people hurt people, and so I'm going to continue to have you in my life to keep injuring me. Right, it's a matter of me to recognize this is a part of your wounding. And now I have to take moral inventory of what is nurturing in my life and what boundaries feel safe for me to not feel like I'm being injured by this recurring person who hasn't done their work potentially. And then I think it's a matter of going to that place, of having forgiveness for ourselves, first and foremost, of the ways that we abandoned ourselves in our adult lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm with you, completely with you, patricia. People may have their curiosity peaked, especially because psychedelics aren't something that come up often on this podcast, but I'm so grateful that you get to share insights with us as to the transformative benefits that they possess. Insights with us as to the transformative benefits that they possess, and curiosity may be piqued in terms of well, how can I create an experience like this or test this out? I know you have retreats, but what are some ways that people can explore this healing method, and is this something that you also see becoming more available to Americans, or is that something that you wish becomes more available and we're seeing some advances there in the medical field? What does that look like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's a website, mapsorg, m-a-p-sorg, which is a phenomenal resource for all things kind of psychedelics and the clinical trials and research that's being done there, so it's a wellspring of knowledge there. Also, on my website I have some information patricianwellcom, about some of my retreats and such. And then, to answer your question, look, there's a lot of movement in the psychedelic renaissance and luckily, speaking about psychedelics is becoming mainstream In a lot of states. We've seen decriminalization, we're working on legalization and I think that it's the way of mental health moving forward. I mean, it is such a powerful tool when used in a safe set and setting when used in a safe set and setting.
Speaker 2:What is it that you hope rings true someday as it relates to psychedelics? Is it that it's as simple as getting it from your local doctor? Or what do you ultimately envision with this so that more people can experience their healing power and really achieve these outcomes of rewiring our trauma in a manner that probably wouldn't have been available to them without these advances?
Speaker 1:Yeah, such a good question. You know it's a tricky landscape out there right now, because I think that it will get in the hands of doctors first, and I don't think all doctors are equipped to really hold space for people in the way that I've witnessed, you know, when we're down in the jungle in Costa Rica and doing psychedelics. Indigenous cultures have been using these medicines for years and there's a lot of the gatekeepers that have been doing these rituals and ceremonies and studied for, you know, for centuries. And I think it would do these medicines a disservice if they only land in the hands of doctors, because I think that it takes a certain skillset to sit with someone in their pain, to sit with someone in their deep healing as they go through this work. And I would say, even for myself, because of my childhood and everything that I've lived through, it gives me a deep compassion and empathy to sit with others through their healing journeys beyond, let's say, a clinical setting.
Speaker 1:Now, all that to say, I think that there's also, you know, these are healing medicines, and the more that we can make them readily available to the general public, I think is also important. You know, people are starved more than ever. You know I was talking with someone just before you about I don't think that we've healed through the collective trauma of COVID. I don't think we've completely come through that PTSD that everyone lives through. You know I look at the political landscape. You know there's a lot of collective trauma going on right now, whatever side you're on.
Speaker 1:You know there's a lot of diversity right now.
Speaker 2:whatever side you're on right now, there's a lot of diversity, and so my hope would be that it can be readily accessible to whoever that needs it and what are some of the outstanding myths that encompass psychedelics that people you wish to see written as we move, as we advance, then there's probably some people that may have this image that psychedelics are just for hippies and or dance parties, and obviously that's not the case. So what are the narratives that you'd like to see people either go away or that people ultimately understand about why this is a good thing?
Speaker 1:I think there's a notion that if you do psychedelics, that it will change who you are at your core. Who you are at your core, like. I've had a lot of people come to my retreats that have been involved in organized religions and they sit before me and say I really don't want to lose my relationship with Catholicism or Mormonism or whatever it is that's so innately important to me. And I think one of the things that you know I just want to highlight is that if that organization or that thing is truly important to you, going and doing psychedelics is not going to change that part of your personality. You might re, you know, evaluate your values. You know, and I think to a lot of people say, well, I'm so afraid if I go do it, I'm going to end up getting a divorce. Well, if deep down inside you, inside of you, you knew that your relationship wasn't really, you know, appropriate for you or that was fulfilling, then yeah, that could be a possibility coming out of it, because you will see the truth of who you are and living out of integrity of that truth can be really challenging. So I think that's one thing.
Speaker 1:I think the other thing is people often say I'm afraid of having a bad trip, or I've watched people have bad trips and it's like you have to look at what was involved in it where they had a rave, mixing a bunch of substances, drinking alcohol, staying up late at night on pharmaceuticals. I think the most important part of this is it's all about set and setting. I can guarantee that if you walk this path of doing psychedelics, you'll have some challenging moments. Undoubtedly you'll have some challenging moments because doing our work is not easy. You know, psychedelics are 20% of the experience and 80% we have free will of what we're going to do with it.
Speaker 2:You have another thing in work right now that is going to allow a lot more people to experience who you are your work, your journey, your memoir. Talk through what's in work there and, for someone that eventually picks it up, what would you want them to gain from it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was so clear to me a handful of years ago that telling my story was important, and a lot of my personal experience revolved around being raised Mormon and a lot of the concealed abuse that was happening within the church.
Speaker 1:But you know, abuse like that doesn't discriminate you know it's across, you know all organized religions and you know a global issue that we don't really raise enough awareness around. And, yes, I had some really challenging and traumatic things happen to me. But what I hope that people gain from reading my memoir is that life can be so beautiful and so incredibly magical if we'll allow ourselves to be curious enough about what's out there for us to be the best version of ourselves. And it doesn't mean that everyone needs to be on podcasts or writing books or doing films or whatever it is. That was my path and that may not be yours. Perhaps someone else is having a beautiful garden, spending time with their family. Whatever your soul's calling is that. I know that peace and happiness is waiting for you and the freedom to live a life of joy if you choose to do the work.
Speaker 2:If you choose to do the work. It's all of what you said there is available to all of us, regardless of our circumstances, and that's what I appreciate, One of the many things that I appreciate about you so much, patricia curiosity. You mentioned curiosity and that's something I've been exploring more and I've also been noticing more of a trend with people in the personal development world that exploring curiosity is this theme. How do you maintain curiosity at the forefront, meaning that, even though you've got a few things that you focus to master, I believe that curiosity and openness to experience and everything that life brings to us is also something that you keep at the forefront, so that you're constantly open to what life has. How do you exhibit that and how can someone maintain curiosity in their lives and rather, what's the importance of exploring curiosity as we're on our journeys?
Speaker 1:So good. I grew up in a religion where you were essentially born that everything you were doing was wrong. You were guilty until proven innocent, and I think that in my healing work I had to dissemble all of these judgments that I had around life, and I think part of curiosity for me is also allowing all those judgments of how people are, the choices they make in their lives, the way I loved how you use that example of your mom will still call you and say, hey, it's cold outside.
Speaker 2:Are you?
Speaker 1:wearing a jacket today or whatever it is, but it's like curiosity is all around, that of like oh, I wonder what it's like for her to still baby me, you know. I wonder what that experience for her is. I wonder what the joy that she gets in calling and knowing that she still has that bond with me, that at any age that I am, she always wants to be that role for you, that is her role, it's you, it's what she came here to do, right? And so I think that, regardless if we can look at it without, for me it was really that judgment and look at the world and this is part of what psychedelics do is, if anything were possible, what would your world look like today If you could design it without limitations and oftentimes our limitations are the ones that we created that aren't even true.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and it allows us to hear the things that maybe we can't hear. We're supposed to hear yeah, that maybe we can't hear, we're supposed to hear For the longest time using that example with my mom, what I didn't hear until I discovered the work. I'm 32 years old and my mom, to this day, and I know that until one of us goes, she will call and ask if I'm wearing a sweater, if it's cold out. She looks at the weather forecast. Did you bring your jacket?
Speaker 2:What I used to hear is I don't trust you to be an adult and you need to get your jacket because you're not going to wear it if I don't tell you to or remind you what I hear now through curiosity and staying remain and staying focused on the inner work and really exploring what, what do certain things really mean? Or what do certain people when they say something, what are they really, what's really being said? And what I know now is that and what I hear is it's just someone. I hear is it's just someone that loves me. It's just someone that loves me, and I believe that's why this work is so important. And going back, and another thing to highlight your work, that psychedelics and psychedelics can help make clear to us is to be able to hear the things that maybe people want us to hear, but we just can't because of our programs that currently reside in our minds that go back a long, long time. So this is beautiful.
Speaker 1:One of the things that psychedelics does as well is that it puts the ego on the shelf. Right, it's like, why don't you take a backseat? And without that, running the show and telling you what's right, what's wrong, what's good, what's bad, what to be? Fearful of and that can just kind of rest for a minute and you can see things from the perspective of a greater reality. For you it's amazing how your entire world can shift.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 1:It's pretty magical.
Speaker 2:Patricia, this has been a magical discussion and before we go into our rapid fire, which is our customary clothes, how can people keep up with you and all of your amazing work and the things that you're doing, not only here stateside, but globally, with the children in Uganda?
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. So Instagram, patricia underscore, noel underscore, or my website, patricianoelcom Also for my work in Africa, is orphanscluborg. So two ways to stay connected for sure.
Speaker 2:Appreciate everything that you're doing Now. Our customary close is a rapid fire session. It's one gem, one step, one book. Customary clothes is a rapid fire session it's one gem, one step, one book. And the way this works is envision that we're going to a cool restaurant for lunch in Deer Valley or Park City and we're going up three elevator floors. There's going to be a person that walks in on each floor and they're only going up one floor. They recognize who you are and they have one question for you. So the amount of time you have to answer the question is the amount of time it takes to go up one elevator floor.
Speaker 1:All right, ah, pressure's on, we'll see how it goes.
Speaker 2:So someone hops in, they recognize you, they've listened to the podcast, and they ask Patricia, what's one gem that you have, whether it be a quote or a mantra that you live your life by that I can put in my back pocket and live my life by as well.
Speaker 1:So I love the quote. Our life begins to end the day we stop speaking about things that are important. I think is how it goes by. Martin Luther King, yeah, and so I think it's about speaking about the things that matter.
Speaker 2:I love that one Next person gets on. Patricia, what's one step that I can take today to kickstart my healing journey?
Speaker 1:I think the first thing that you can do I mean one you could go to my website and start to. I think one thing is anyone you feel inspired by when the student is ready, the teacher appears, and it doesn't have to be psychedelics, it doesn't have to be someone that you know. It could be a book that lands in your lap, it could be a podcast that you listen to when the student is ready, the teacher appears, and listen to the clues along the way.
Speaker 2:When the student is ready, the teacher appears. Last one, and maybe the most difficult what's one book besides yours that we can read in 2025 to improve our mindsets and start our healing journey? Build a better relationship with trauma?
Speaker 1:yeah, the body keeps the score by Bessel van der Kolk 100%. I mean, this book is a game changer to understand how we show up and process trauma in our bodies.
Speaker 2:Beautiful Patricia. This has been an impactful discussion. I really appreciate how there was a lot of more interactive dialogue and that here's some real situations and and let it play out I truly appreciate your work and how you help others really again experience their limitless potential, loved the insights and the transformative power of psychedelics and appreciate you educating us and when we take everything into play here and understand that we possess all of the tools and the power that we could ever want and need. We possess that right now. We can heal our trauma, build a strong relationship with past pain and win today. Thanks so much, thank you.
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