Win Today
Win Today is a performance enhancing podcast filled with actionable insights and inspiration to come out on top in life. Through captivating interviews and solo episodes, a powerful tool is created and given to listeners to be able to push through any situation in life.
Hosted by Ryan Cass, he delivers messages that align to his purpose of helping people establish a foundation for sustained success, break trends of adversity, and chart desirable courses for life. Win Today!
Win Today
#187 | Inside The Inspired: Flipping The Script On "Not Being Good Enough" Ft. Jonathan Cohen
Join us as we explore the journey of turning inner struggles into sources of strength through the practice of mental toughness. This episode emphasizes cultivating a kind relationship with oneself, the importance of supportive environments, and the transformative power of consistent action.
• Understanding the balance of kindness and discipline in tough moments
• The impact of surrounding oneself with a positive community
• Personal stories of overcoming learning disabilities and critical moment reflections
• Building mental toughness through daily practices of gratitude and self-belief
• The importance of striving for progress rather than perfection
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being kind to yourself in those moments, not to the point that you can't perform, but knowing when the levers are there, knowing where the levers are to pull.
Speaker 1:Grace and kindness versus like this is the time to really like push it, but hating on yourself, like calling yourself an idiot or, you know, demeaning yourself, like that's not how you cultivate a relationship with the demons.
Speaker 1:Those are the demons.
Speaker 1:And so I've learned how to cultivate a relationship with my demons through what we know as mental toughness, and mental toughness as a practice of gratitude, self-belief, self-trust, understanding that these things that we really care about at a high level, like me and you, are the answer to handling those demons, and you have to cultivate that courage on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:That's why it's a practice. It's not, it's a practice of law, a practice of medicine, a practice of mental toughness. Like these are things that you do over and over and over again, to the point that it becomes ingrained in your identity that this is just who you are right. So I have learned how to cultivate that relationship by doing these things over and over and over again, regardless to the point where it's, regardless of how I feel, like if my elbows feel like they're going to fall off after I've done a thousand plus pull-ups. I'm still going to get up there until I deliver a thousand eighteen, even when my dad is looking at me in the eye and said you've done enough for 1018, even when my dad is looking at me in the eye and said you've done enough.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Wednesday podcast, a weekly resource thoughtfully crafted to help people build and refine discipline, accomplish their goals, fortify their mindsets and be of service to somebody in this world. My name is Ryan Cass and I am your host, and it is my mission and commitment to deliver amazing episodes to you every week where you will learn from myself or renowned expert in their field. We love helping people win in every aspect of their lives, and you can help us win by sharing the show with somebody that you believe will benefit from it subscribing and leaving a rating and review with somebody that you believe will benefit from it subscribing and leaving a rating and review. We believe that everybody in this world is meant to do something great with their lives and we're here to help play a role in that. Thank you for tuning in and let's win today.
Speaker 2:Someone's environment is often a key indicator for their success who they surround themselves with, the information that they choose to consume day in and day out, their daily habits the whole gamut. I'm honored to bring someone on that is a key in my environment, someone that absolutely inspires me and a plethora of people all over the world, day in and day out. I looked up the definition of inspired before this podcast and it goes as this fill someone with the urge or ability to do or feel something, and Jonathan Cohen is somebody that fills me with the urge to push myself harder and further than I believe possible and to be the best servant leader that I can possibly be. He is a father, an attorney, a voracious giver and servant, ultra marathon runner and host of the Inside the Inspired podcast. Jonathan, welcome, brother.
Speaker 1:That might be the best introduction of me I've ever heard. Ryan, my man, thank you, and it's funny how you say I push you when you're the one running further, running faster, running along the curve with your shirt on in crazier environments. Bro, pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:I believe that speaks to the power of the environment right there. I remember coming across you on LinkedIn a few months ago, coming across you on LinkedIn a few months ago, and I believe that that's why it's so important for people to operate in alignment with whatever their purpose is, day in and day out, because I believe it creates this magnetic force that it's going to draw the right people to you and people that are also committed to leveling up. So I look forward to going on LinkedIn or social media in the morning and having content that aligns with my purpose and seeing you out there at 5 am, 20 degrees, going on a 10 mile run. It really is powerful and I know that I'm echoed by many in saying that. You inspire me and I love that we get to do this. I said a lot of cool things about you, but what do you believe is most important for the world to know about Jonathan Cohen?
Speaker 1:Oh, wow. I think the most important thing that I would hope the world knows about me is that I'm someone who couldn't and now I'm someone who can. And the reason I think that's important is because you talked about the definition of inspiration, and there's a great sentiment that always hits and resonates with me People won't remember your name, but they will remember your impact, and for me, the impact is, you know, you talked about serving leadership. It's really about the type of not not legacy in terms of, oh, you'll remember my name, but the world will know I was here because of the impact that I made in the positive ripples that I created, even if they don't remember Jonathan Cohen specifically.
Speaker 1:And so the most important thing that I would hope people know about me is that I believe it's possible if someone who struggled with learning disabilities, struggled with labels, struggled with identity, struggled with just his self-image and his self-talk, that it's so possible If you, you don't have to like have these crazy, like beliefs, you don't have to take some crazy pill, you don't have to like read one book, you don't have to like watch one youtube video. Transformation is a series of moments and like. If you understand that premise, then you have more patience with yourself and you kind of take this timeline off of like in this crazy sense of urgency for me to reach this destination, and you learn of take this timeline off of like in this crazy sense of urgency from you to reach this destination, and you learn to become more process driven and do things that fall in alignment. And so what I would hope people take away from anything that I share is like you can do things that you want to do too and you can get better at them over time.
Speaker 1:I never imagined that when I picked up a David Goggins book or found out or discovered ultra running, that I would be raising tens and tens of thousands of dollars, like you, for running crazy distances for what feels like no reason. But that's impact and that is what I think. Over time I've come to learn through thousands of reps, thousands of miles and thousands of hours invested in trying to be better. So that's what I would hope the world knows about me that if I can, you definitely can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what I'm hearing is that struggles can shape our path, with the right mindset to see beyond the struggle and perhaps what it could be giving you in that moment. And I love to understand from people that are so committed to doing what you're doing and that creating ripple effect for others and really focusing on impact it's usually driven by something very deep, and when I was doing my research on you and you mentioned it as well that in your early years you struggled with reading, comprehension and critical thinking. So bring us back to what I understand to be the genesis for being so committed to helping others, and those struggles that ultimately created this beautiful path that you're on right now.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man. It really starts with this moment in particular that I was in high school. I worked with my parents. We had hired a college counselor outside of the public school system to help me coordinate a path to get into college. To get into college, and long story long, I ended up finding a dream school, muhlenberg College. And when I brought it up to her she laughed in my parents' face and mine so audibly that I could still hear it ringing and said to me in front of my parents your are gonna have to buy a building in order for you to get in there. And it was a very humbling moment for a kid that, like I'm not gonna say I was the best student, I'm not gonna say I did my homework it's not like I was doing my best but I definitely didn't want that to be something my parents had to do to get me into college. And so it became an inflection point where, like I'm gonna prove this woman wrong, like I'm gonna prove her so wrong she won't even know what hit her, and I started to take steps and put energy into doing the work to get into college and so I ended up going for an interview.
Speaker 1:Interview goes great, but my academic credentials weren't enough. But because the interview went great and the stars aligned in a way that I end up meeting the interviewer outside of the interview room because she had been walking into the halls of the academic office that I was getting interviewed in. I ended up holding the door for her a couple times. She was carrying books. She ends up being the interviewer. We get along. And so she's like I'm gonna recommend you and I'm thinking, wow, I got into mulemberg, this is great. And then, like two, three days later, uh, we get a call from her and she's like yeah, we can't take your grades and SATs aren't good enough. And I'm like, god damn, like what? I was so hyped for a couple of days and you know, me and my family are like what can we do? And so she advised, you know we could reach out to the dean of admissions.
Speaker 1:And so dean of admissions initially won't meet with me. My dad gets on the phone with him. He goes when was the last time you met with someone for five minutes and you changed their life? Guy ends up meeting with me. We drive down. I don't remember what came over me, but I end up saying to the dean I want to be able to shake your hand at the end of four years and say thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1:And so what happened was he took me on a conditional acceptance that I had to start, that I had to finish school and I had to maintain a certain GPA and certain credentials in order to be admitted for the following year. So I had to take this inevitable year off and I end up enlisting in the Israeli military. I end up holding the academic grades that I needed, I get the conditional acceptance, I meet the requirements and so I enlist in the Israeli military for a year infantry combat. And while I was there, I wanted to extend. My grandparents were Holocaust survivors and I visited the concentration camps when I was in high school. So ends up being three days after I graduate high school, I enlist in the military.
Speaker 1:One year turns to two, and the discipline that I learned in the military, the time management that I learned in the military, the self-belief and the language and the energy and skills that I learned in the military all helped me cultivate a baseline for how to operate and hold myself out into society.
Speaker 1:And so, over time, I eventually ended up going to college. College became law school Law school, business school I did a four-year JD MBA program. I end up taking a position as a criminal prosecutor in the Bronx where I was a special victims prosecutor for three years and I prosecuted hundreds of domestic violence crimes. I investigated all different types of crazy crime in the Bronx which is extremely high volume and very, very dangerous, and that really kind of gave me a crazy sense of self-belief and how to investigate how to handle things, how to manage my emotions and we can get into that how to handle pressure. And the genesis of it really was that one moment that I got to tell that college counselor like they didn't have to buy a building, I got it anyway. She didn't even remember or care. It never really carried that much weight for her, but for me that was really the main springboard that made a difference in how I started to change my life and take steps towards my future.
Speaker 2:Getting into some mental reframing, which we can certainly turned into went from the maybe the worst compliment I don't want to say compliment because that's where I'm going, but the most degrading thing somebody could have said ended up probably it sounds like to me becoming the best compliment she could have given you. Because what I think about a few instances in my life where people have told me I can't. Now, if someone says that, I just smile because in my mind, where it goes, and I'm curious what, what would, what would take place in your mind right now If somebody said, jonathan, you can't run a hundred miles, there's no way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where do you go yeah, that doesn't phase me. There's too much evidence at this point that not even I can question, right Like it. It just becomes that thing that, um, you've just shown yourself over and over and over again that you're ruminating and wasting your time by investing in the feeling and listen every day. You know there's people at work or there's people in life and there's people in the DMs that have to, like, say their whatever they have to say, and usually it's also people that you love very dearly that also have an opinion. Right, I'm sure you get it quite a lot that there's a lot of risk in the hundreds of miles that you're running and thousands of dollars that you're raising and the crazy things that you've accomplished over the course of your career as a runner and as a professional, and like, it's just one of those things where you can't waste time investing the energy into. Well, why doesn't that person think this about me? Or don't they get it already? Like I've shown myself this enough that, no, I can't. I don't have the bandwidth to play that game anymore. I have to focus my energy strategically and in a way that allows me to grow and be effective, and I can't be effective if I'm spending so much time in imposter syndrome or calling myself out. I talk about the demons a lot. I mean Goggins talks about the demons too. I know I've already referenced them twice, but I promise I've read hundreds of other books. It's just one of those things that's relatable because they can also be gremlins.
Speaker 1:Right 40 miles into a 58 mile run, like there's tears running down my face. My wife is asking me if I'm okay, my mom's telling me I could stop anytime. My daughter's playing on the floor and I'm like I just I'm like why did I decide to do this? Like what was I thinking? Like no one cares. Like this doesn't make a difference. Like even if I thought about all the kids that I was helping, it's like why did I have to be so overly ambitious? Like, why did I have to endure this pain? And then, at mile over mile 50, the last eight miles.
Speaker 1:Like some of those miles I was running sub eight minute miles you know, and like it's just one of those things that you have to go through, that transition of like getting those gremlins, getting those demons out and knowing that after they've been like just taken out of your body through sheer force. That like now waking up at 4 30 in the morning to go train and run 10 miles in like sub 20 degrees I think it was like seven degrees the other day like it. It's just one of those things that you, you just know who you are. I mean, I'm sure if someone wants to tell you the same thing and be like what? Where?
Speaker 2:now, okay, like it's, like you're ready to go at any point, you know yeah, yeah, and and this is such this is perfect timing for this discussion because we're we're two and a half well, three weeks into a new year. This is right about the this discussion because we're two and a half well, three weeks into a new year. This is right about the time where a lot of folks' highs are ending the new year high. I'm going to have the best habits, I'm going to be the most disciplined, I'm going to leave all the negative self-talk in 2024. And for a lot of people right now, they had the high and then now it's like okay, this is actual work and some people are going to start going on the decline. The gym is starting to become more open in the morning, it's easy to get on the bench press, etc. Etc.
Speaker 2:You've built a really strong relationship with the we'll call them the quote demons. How can somebody build a relationship with the voices that are encouraging them to stop and allow them to keep pushing themselves forward? Because you know your journey, you know obviously there was a point in time where the demons stopped you and now they're still going to visit. They'll visit anybody, they even visit Goggins. But people like you have a relationship with it to where now it's just noise and you keep going forward. So how can someone build that?
Speaker 1:It's important to note that they show up in not just running. Running, like in so many different areas, right and like, running is just one area where they're so palpable and like, potent and in your face that when you're forced to face them, first thing, it allows you to channel an energy throughout the day that builds that confidence because you kept a promise to yourself. You did the thing that you said that you were going to do. So you have proof for yourself that you are someone who says they're going to do the thing that they say they're going to do. And I have built a relationship with my demons that I understand where they populate, demons that I understand where they populate, and I will have a conversation with myself that sometimes is like oh, shut up, all right time to go. And it's even as simple as like the other day when I was running I took out the garbage on recycling day. And like my time in the morning is very like the minutes count, because I got like 90 minutes of driving every day. Like, like my time in the morning is very like the minutes count, cause I got like a 90 minutes of driving every day. Like I got two kids, I got a wife. I got a house, like I, uh, I got this crazy training regimen, I got a pot, a job, like there's all these things that are going on where I'm spread very thin, and so, like I make my seconds and minutes really count. So during the run I'm thinking about how I have to go and switch the recycling to the garbage, to the recycling and I'm like those are precious seconds and moments and minutes that I can't spare because I value my time and just it's like, oh, maybe you do it after, but then you miss recycling and like, just so conversation starts about literally about garbage Crazy, right, yeah, and you have to manage that conversation, knowing when it's time to tell yourself to shut up and do the work and knowing when it's time to give yourself grace and love yourself. So I have learned over time how to be kind to myself through experience. So, like, going back to just you know we're both runners and it's easy metaphors.
Speaker 1:But I can give other examples, like I'll give another example outside of running stepping on stage and speaking in front of hundreds of people, or getting up in front of 20 plus people to talk about a case where a very heinous crime occurred and someone's liberty is on the line and the stakes are very high for the victim, for the witness, for the defendant, for the attorneys, for justice, whatever that looks like and your name is on the docket and you're representing the facts and circumstance and people of the county and you have to be able to portray things accurately and people have opinions. There's order that needs to be maintained and there's a lot of things that can go wrong, whether it's the paperwork, or someone spends a second longer in jail than they're supposed to, or you misrepresent something inaccurately and someone suffers as a result, whether it be the defendant or the victim or a witness, whoever it is. There's a lot of things that go down that you're responsible for, and so being kind to yourself in those moments not to the point that you can't perform, but knowing when the levers are there, knowing where the levers are to pull, grace and kindness versus like this is the time to really like push it, but hating on yourself, like calling yourself an idiot or, you know, demeaning yourself, like that's not how you cultivate a relationship with the demons. Those are the demons, and so I've learned how to cultivate a relationship with my demons through what we know is mental toughness, and mental toughness is a practice of gratitude, self-belief, self-trust, understanding that these things that we really care about at a high level, like me and you, are the answer to handling those demons, and you have to cultivate that courage on a daily basis. That's why it's a practice. It's not, it's a practice of law, a practice of medicine, a practice of mental toughness Like these are things that you do over and over and over again, to the point that it becomes ingrained in your identity that this is just who you are.
Speaker 1:So I have learned how to cultivate that relationship by doing these things over and over and over again, regardless to the point where it's, regardless of how I feel.
Speaker 1:And over again, regardless to the point where it's, regardless of how I feel, like if my elbows feel like they're going to fall off after I've done a thousand plus pull-ups, I'm still going to get up there until I deliver a thousand eighteen, even when my dad is looking at me in the eye and said you've done enough, even when I'm about to faint because I didn't know how to fuel properly for strength, endurance, like that, and my brother looks across from me and he's like foxhole motherfucker, like we're in this thing together, like it's those moments that when the demons arise physiologically or mentally or emotionally, or in the form of someone you love or that you respect their opinion and admire, you have to cultivate the conversation internally in a way that allows you to build yourself up.
Speaker 1:And building yourself up doesn't mean I'm the greatest, it doesn't mean I'm feeling outstanding. It means one step at a time, it means one stride at a time, it means one breath at a time, it means just go one more. It means do one more thing before you quit, go for one more day. That one more line in that book, and those simple things have made a massive difference in how I approach those demons on a daily basis.
Speaker 2:It sounds like proving yourself right by taking action on the things that you said you're going to do is what will then cultivate that confidence and strengthen that belief system. That, all right. I said I was going to go out and do this difficult task in the morning, whether it is a run or something at work, and by doing that, even when maybe I don't want to, then, okay, now I'm giving myself some juice, like, okay, that felt really good, let's keep this engine rolling. Wouldn't it be awesome if motivation was this thing that when we're getting dressed in the morning, we're putting on our shoes, we're taking our supplements, and then, okay, let me go grab this motivation real quick and take my motivation supplement.
Speaker 2:But motivation follows action. So, by building a system around committing to small actions for yourself so if this is completely new to somebody in 2025, even as small as okay, I'm going to wake up early and stretch for 10 minutes Great and go do that thing, and then that can evolve into more difficult things. And now you're strengthening that belief system. You're learning how to push past these demons on your shoulders that want you to stay in bed or justify not going after your goals, and another thing people can do is just follow you and subscribe, and it'll be pretty hard to not take action on your things.
Speaker 2:You know, but you brought up imposter syndrome, and that's another thing that I really want. Now I'm starting to focus this conversation on a few things that we both understand people struggle with and, especially in the new year, a lot of people are asking the how? Questions how do I set goals, how do I become more motivated, how do I push the demons aside? You were on the Higher Alignment podcast fairly recently and you brought up this beautiful analogy from Alex Hormozy on how you overcame I'm way too mainstream Overcame imposter syndrome, bro. But just basically, what did that look like for you? Because I feel that that's something that we all have bouts with. Even the best of the best have bouts with it as well, you know, but we often glorify them and assume that they don't have internal battles as well, but they do and we get to talk to them, and many of them that we've had on our shows often share that and that they're human. So what did that look like for you?
Speaker 1:I got to stop quoting Hormozy and Goggins.
Speaker 2:Everyone's going to think I only read two different books, but I digress the fact that they're that, I believe it just speaks to the level of impact that they have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that too.
Speaker 2:It's not that, that's all you you know, it's not that you're a, a goggin ted. You know, and everything is all you know. Whatever goggins would do, then I'm gonna do. I don't believe that, but you know, those are two people, going back to the beginning of what you said, like, what would you want to be known for? Impact and you. Those just happen to be two people that have created an enormous impact in this world. So A hundred percent, yeah. So let's, let's talk through that. How was, what was that influence and and the relationship with imposter syndrome?
Speaker 2:For you, discipline is a key component of this podcast and a key thing that we preach. We view discipline as the fuel to help you create the life that you ultimately desire, and discipline being the fuel that gets your habits and systems in check so that you can actually accomplish your goals. Your habits and systems in check so that you can actually accomplish your goals. If you're looking to level up in 2025, I am happy to be a part of that and encourage you to join the Unshakable Discipline Mastermind Group. This has been my baby for a couple years and we're finally launching it here in 2025. The group consists of a self-paced course that teaches you how to form core habits and mindset that will allow you to accomplish your goals. A daily accountability channel to keep you on track, motivated and in alignment with our members. And weekly mastermind sessions where you're going to learn from either myself or a suite of renowned guests many who have been on the podcast that are going to share pieces of their winning playbooks directly with you. I've learned that being a part of groups over the years has helped propel me to so many new levels in life.
Speaker 2:If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, then go together, and it's my wish that the Unshakable Crew is a choice that makes sense for you in 2025. We are growing up to 100 members this year and have limited time founding member pricing for 12 more folks before we permanently increase pricing to $97 a month. You can get in now for $67 a month, locked in for life, and be a part of the adventure that we're creating with our members. If you're somebody that craves discipline, seeks it or wants it this year, and you're really committed to making lasting changes in your life and being around others that are committed to winning and serving the world and sharing what they learn with others so that we make this world a better place, then join the Unshakable crew. Go to unshakabledisciplinecom and you can sign up. It is also in the show notes Unshakeable shake, as in milkshake, unshakabledisciplinecom, and we're excited to have you in 2025. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Imposter syndrome haunted me for years, especially as somebody who felt so accomplished that like no matter what I had done and I'd done some pretty cool things, like objectively, that now I can share humbly uh but it wasn't enough for me to believe in myself because certain results and certain brands and names and perspectives that I had had about what quote, success looks like you have to go work for that company, you have to go work for that school, or you have to go work for that opportunity, or you have to go after that opportunity that those benchmarks became what I considered successful. And even when I started to go up against certain attorneys who had gone to Yale or Harvard or if I was a summer associate when I was a summer associate in a program and I'm a first year and all of these Ivy Leaguers are surrounding me or other people from schools that got into the program, but those schools didn't take me. I'm going up against them in a mock trial and I'm getting called out for giving the best closing amongst all of those attorneys or, I guess, law students at the time, like I didn't know how to process in my head that I had an ability or that I was skilled enough, because my definition of success was associated with the credentials that somebody else had, and so I measured and I overcompensated in ways that allowed me to reflect my skill set in a way that was effective, like that closing in a mock trial versus the internal dialogue that I was having with myself around. You know, stop pretending like you can keep up, or stop pretending that you can keep up, you're as good as you think you are. Like there's a reason they got into those schools. Like just wasting my time with unnecessary like meaningful. And I'm, candidly, like at the point where I can't even necessarily recall all of those internal conversations, because I've just cemented so much positivity into my life and I've injected it through experience into my life. And I've injected it through experience into my life, but a lot of it was about how I perceived other people, instead of me focusing on myself, instead of me focusing on delivering the best clothing that I could deliver than I did on my trail of evidence that helped me assess and establish.
Speaker 1:This is who I am. I am someone who got his pilot's license. I am someone who went to the military. I am someone who got into college when all the odds were against him. I am someone who started a podcast that tens of thousands of people have listened to. I'm someone and like it took us. Are these metrics real? Like is that? Is that content that got 11 views? I guess it's not that good because it's only got 11 views. But that person messaged me and they said it really impacted them and they wanted to. They wanted to get together because of it or they rated the podcast because of it. Like, I learned to just focus my attention on where the impact I was making was felt and it also became this area of like. Am I diluting myself into things also just by leaning towards all the positive reinforcement? But you kind of have to be the and what I've learned is you kind of have to. It's not picking and choosing.
Speaker 1:And I interviewed Steven Pressfield, global bestselling author. Millions of copies of his books sold all over. Joe Rogan gives it out as like a book to some of his guests and you know he talks about rationalization and the war of art. I don't know if you've read it and it's this idea that we rationalized our behavior and rationalization is also a form of procrastination. It's this idea that we rationalized our behavior and rationalization is also a form of procrastination. It's a form of self-sabotage. I'm going to post about this. I'm glad you're asking this question.
Speaker 1:Rationalization, for me, was something that resonated a ton, because I was justifying every single one of my actions Once I got to a certain level of like okay, I believe in myself, but I'm going to train, even though I shouldn't or I'm going to do something that I want to do, but it's going to be because of this and I wasn't really measuring my progress in a way that was tangible, I was just going by, feel, and so once I put the objective lens and eliminated the abstract, like the abstractness around my output and my accomplishments, I was able to lean into a vision and a version of myself that says, like, okay, I am qualified in this area. I do have a level of expertise. Based on the hundreds of books, based on the hundreds of interviews, based on the hundreds of miles, based on the hundreds of reps, based on the conversations that I've had, the stages that I've been on, the speaking at Stanford, like wherever it is that I was, I was able to look at the objective metrics and say, okay, I am telling myself the wrong story and I'm wasting my time, the precious minutes and moments trying to.
Speaker 1:You know, someone gives me a compliment. I don't know how to take a compliment. Well, it's not good if you don't know how to take a compliment. Actually, you should learn how to say thank you. You don't have to put yourself down just because someone gives you a compliment. It's actually a very gracious thing to the person that's giving you a compliment to learn how to take a compliment. You don't have to put yourself down every single time someone tries to put you up, right?
Speaker 1:People self-sabotage in those subtle ways that imposter syndrome, uh, just undercuts their ability to to create more, to offer more, to give more, and and it prevents progress. You know, and most people are their own worst enemy. They think that they're fighting, and they're fighting the wrong people and they think that they're fighting external sources, but really it's themselves and it's the person that they see in the mirror. And so I learned how to get out of my own way a long time ago, and so I've only learned how to look forward, since I only look back to see how far I've come, but at the same time, to reflect on lessons that I've learned. And so the relationship really became about how do I look at myself, in a way, and hold myself accountable in a way that I'm still a good person. I'm still someone who's trying. I'm also someone who's accomplished.
Speaker 1:I still am not where I want to be, but I want to make progress and not let all the white noise of what someone else has done or what someone else thinks or all these other things get in my way, because it's not allowing me to be the best version of yourself. Being the best version of yourself means you need enough mental bandwidth to do the things. You don't have the bandwidth to do the thing if you're concerned about what that person thinks. Right In Viktor Frankl Man's Search for Meaning he talks about when someone leaves your life, it makes room for everything else you have to accomplish, and so, again, we have a finite amount of energy to give, so stop wasting it on things that are preventing you from putting that energy into what could move the needle for you, you know. So that's kind of how I've assessed my relationship with imposter syndrome and how I was able to transform it into more productive energy.
Speaker 2:And encouragement for folks there is that to get over imposter syndrome is look at the evidence. That's something that often goes overlooked. That's something that often goes overlooked, but you reminded yourself of the journey and all the steps that you have taken to get to where you were in that moment, or even where you are right now. If you're ever battling those thoughts again now or in the future, what got me here? So a question that we can pose to people is what has allowed you or enabled you to get to where you are right now? And I'd be willing to bet that anybody can list five to 10 to 15 things that has gotten you to where you are.
Speaker 2:And it's often easy to overlook that because we can look at somebody else's journey. I can look at you and say, oh, jonathan, he's had all these big time people on inside the Inspired podcast. Maybe I'm just not asking the right questions. Or you know, he must just have the 10 times better outreach system than me. You know who am I to think that I can get Steven Pressfield on my podcast. Or we can look at all the steps that have been taken from day one of this pod in 2021 to where it is now, and in that journey, are you familiar with the gap in the gain from dr ben hardy?
Speaker 1:I just read someone's post about it, so I know very tangentially it's. It's one of the second time it's coming up.
Speaker 2:It sounds like I need it's one of my favorite books, but then favorite concepts. So, basically, the gap in the gain. People often find themselves especially ambitious. People find themselves living in the, which means that we arrive at point X, regardless of how monumental of an effort it was. So we can take your example of most recently running a 58-mile ultramarathon, which we'll get into next, raising $29,000. Amazing, phenomenal accomplishment.
Speaker 2:Living in the gap would mean that, after all that work you just did and you've even alluded to what some of that day looked like that you're then looking at oh well, I haven't ran 100 miles yet. And well, look at all these other people who have ran 100 miles and they raised $40,000, $50,000. That's living in the gap, because the goalpost is always moving versus living in the gain. Okay, what did it take to be able to run 58 miles and raise $29,000? Oh, it took thousands of early morning wake-ups on the days that you didn't want to. It took thousands of miles.
Speaker 2:It took dedicated outreach. It took cultivating a strong network of people that can give $29,000. So I often remind myself as well, zoom out and what has gotten you to where you are right now? Because you can find so much supporting evidence that you are capable, you have the tools, you're on the right path and, of course, there's going to be bumps, and those bumps are to be embraced. But I love, I, absolutely, absolutely, I absolutely love that I I mean the gap in the gain aspect.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you experience it with everything that you've done to multiple hundred mile races, speed demon, also raising incredible amounts of money, like there just isn't enough room with all those miles and time and energy to live in that gap there just isn't not. Not for me, not for you. Yeah, and it's funny that you talk about. It's a great example of the of the 58 compared to 100, because I had this goal when I initially set out to do the 58-mile run, that I wanted to be in this rare club that I invented Someone who did 1,000-plus push-ups, pushups, a thousand plus pull-ups and ran over 50 miles. I felt like no one did that. I think the only person or only couple of people that I know that have done it are like David Goggins, truett Haynes and me. Maybe there's like a couple of people who have done a thousand plus pull-ups and pushups in a marathon, but as far as I know, uh, those are the only three that I know. My research is pretty dense. I've gone through like all of the different fundraisers, I've gone through like all these different things and that's what I've come up with. If anything, it's like a one percent of a one percent. And so I created this kind of idea to help me separate myself as somebody. For me to know I'm in my own unique unit. Not that I'm like this crazy fit person, not that I'm this special dude, just someone who created his own little club that he's allowed in and a very other select few that put themselves through all of the pain and rigor and training that comes along with it.
Speaker 1:And once I had finished that 58 mile run which, candidly, a year earlier I probably didn't even in January, I didn't really think it was that possible I was feeling like I under trained. I was feeling like I wouldn't know how to fuel because I kept getting sick. Like there were just so many things that were unknown that in the last year or so leading up to it I needed to refine. And so after that 58 mile run, I had reached this goal that no one knew or really cared about the 1000, 1050 club and it gave me this crazy sense of, okay, I've done it. But you and I know right, the goalpost moon, it's like well, what if I could do it all in one day? You know like, wouldn't that be cool if I just meant like you know I probably did a couple hours of pull-ups. You know, do the hour of the push-ups. I probably do them back to back. I could super set them. And then what if I go for like a 10 hour run after that, I'll just eat a ton that day. But like that, that's living in the gap to your point, right, and that that's just unnecessarily moving the goalposts where it's like why am I doing that? Like that wouldn't make me a better person, that would just do more like it. What are you trying to accomplish here? Right, and you know we talked a little bit about about it before.
Speaker 1:Like I'm trying to write a book, or I am writing a book. For me that's more of a challenge mentally to put myself in a space where I can write a book that, if one person reads, or no one reads, or if I'm the only one who ever reads it, or my wife is, or my kids one day, like that is something important to me because it's taking more mental energy, it's taking it's harder for me. It's easier for me now to want to go and run 50 to 100 miles not that those feats are ever easier, ever will be but it's easier for me to want to go, do that, which is how I know I gotta go the other way and do the other thing. That's making that. That's gonna like make me more vulnerable, make me work harder in a different way, challenge me mentally and physically, because I, you have to sit down, you're not moving right, like you're not burning calories, you know. So those things kind of play a different role.
Speaker 1:But I try to take the approach with this stuff of like what's the thing I'm avoiding? What's the thing that I really don't want to do? What's the thing, the hard conversation I have to have, what, like? I don't want to go outside and run okay, that's a sign I need to go out and run. I don't want to drive to the office? Okay, that means I need to go and I need to drive to the office. Like that's how I try to operate these days, and I don't know if that's living in the gap as much, but I try. It's like a combination, not resting on my laurels, but also like making the harder decision where I can you know.
Speaker 2:I would say that when you look back at you know all of those times where you, okay, what I heard is, you don't want to write the book, but you sit down and write the book. You might not want to do X, but you go ahead and do it. When you look back at that, that's all part of the game, because then that's again just what allowed you, because every time you make that choice to go after or do the thing you don't want to do, you're only bettering yourself every with every one of those things you just mentioned. When has somebody ever worked out and felt worse about themselves? Now, you could feel worse physically that you just kicked your ass, but when would you feel worse about yourself for doing something that's in alignment with the bigger picture? Never. I don't know how anyone could justify.
Speaker 1:Outside of injuries. Yes, You're 100% right.
Speaker 2:But even with a book, you're probably not. I mean, you might get carpal tunnel, but you know like endurance spans across everything in life. I know we often talk about it from the physical perspective, but there's mental endurance. There's endurance with your family, with our professional careers, and the more that we put ourselves in the arena, the more opportunity we create. There's endurance with your family, with our professional careers, and the more that we put ourselves in the arena, the more opportunity we create to prove ourselves right, to create evidence for our future self that when we're going through a tough moment, no, no, no, no. You can do that, because here's everything you've done to get to this place right here. Walk through the most difficult moment or moments that you can recall from being in the arena for over nine hours, running 58 miles and raising $29,000 for charity.
Speaker 1:It's so funny you talk about the arena because, literally when I was running today, you don't run with headphones, right? I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, Sometimes I don't run with headphones, oof, and you don't run without a shirt in 20 degrees, fair, fair Touche. I got three to four layers on and I was thinking to myself just about people that have, you know, criticize my lifestyle, saying like it's not sustainable, or you'll see the knees when you're older, or blah, blah, blah. Like you know, all that, all that talk, I literally said to myself I am in the arena, that's what this is. That is literally what this is right now 10 miles on a Friday morning, with all the reasons in the world not to get up at 430 and run in the freezing cold, but like I am in the arena and this is what it looks like and I have to be able to endure. And so when I think about the 58 mile run and those hardest moments I mean I talked about that instance before 40 miles in there was there was a couple times mile 31, even though I had done a couple 30 milers before, was pretty grueling because I hadn't stopped. So it was straight like 31. I think I got to like 36 ish without stopping. At 18 I like kissed my wife and baby because they had like surprised me along the route, but I, I believe like three. I hadn't run 31 miles without, like straight stopping on pavement. And so, like my body was feeling the pavement, I didn't change my shirt, I hadn't changed my shoes, I didn't change anything until like 37 miles in, didn't change my shirt, I hadn't changed my shoes, I didn't change anything until like 37 miles in. And it was one of those things that I'm like, wow, this is, this is hard.
Speaker 1:At 37, I was in uncharted territory and you know how it is. When your body's in uncharted territory 45 miles in my mind is like, oh my god, what were you thinking? Why on earth would you do this? Why would you put yourself in this position? No one would care if you stopped. Most people would say I told you so your parents will still love you, like all these unnecessary things. And my brother, to his credit, started running with me. He planned on doing like five or six. He ended up doing like 13 on the fly and 12 or 13. And stayed with me the whole time and at points like just running around, running around a track, cause my knees couldn't continue, like I had to finish, and my knees just couldn't keep pounding the pavement every single time.
Speaker 1:It was just way too much. And so I just remember thinking like why 58,? Man, like 50 would have been fine, like, but initially the reason I wanted 58 was because five and eight those numbers are lucky for me and my family, and so I combined them and an 85 was too long. I didn't really want to do that, at least at this stage. A 50 mile run was kind of like, hey, if I could do a 50-mile run, that would be crazy. And so I wanted to kind of taste the air up there over 50 to see what it was like. And 51 didn't feel long enough. 55, you know, double five would have been nice, but eight really means something to me. I did 1,018 pull-ups as a fundraiser. I did 1, 18 pull-ups as a fundraiser. I did a thousand 18 pushups as a fundraiser. So I needed that eight in there.
Speaker 1:And those couple moments where I'm just questioning reality but getting past 50 miles and a rainstorm coming through and me having to run in the rain, my family coming out to see me in the rain, like everyone thought I wasn't going to finish because of all the rain, and I was like there's no choice, like I committed to do this, I'm going to do this. I said I would do this, and if I stop short, then who am I? No one's going to believe anything that I say, oh, I did it the next day. No, none of that. I would have finished it if I had to crawl it, like that was where I was at.
Speaker 1:And so those moments where, like my knees were just screaming, my family's telling me I can rest, my daughter doesn't know what's happening, my mom is asking me to stop but trying to be supportive, it's all these different things, all those moments that the demons and the gremlins they populate in all those subtle ways. Man, the only way I knew how to keep going was by putting one foot in front of the other and having that grace with myself to say go as slow as you need to go, run the slowest damn mile, but don't walk. Do whatever you need to do, but do not walk. You don't need music, just eat.
Speaker 2:And I didn't want to eat that is something, oh, that's so hard, oh my my god, I don't know if you've had that experience oh yeah dude, I did not want to eat the only.
Speaker 1:Thing that was palatable was watermelon, which is no calories, so that was like at least hydrating me. Deli turkey I shoved down my throat. I shoved down a pro mix bar down my throat, but like nothing. You couldn't offer me my favorite food for free, and I wasn't. I didn't want anything. It was so hard to get calories in and I just had to push myself through. Once I shoved, like I don't know, maybe like 150 calories down my throat, I started to get a little bit of light 45 miles in.
Speaker 1:Once I passed 50, that rainstorm came. We had to hop in the car for a hot sec to let it pass. Everyone thought we were going home. I was like let's keep going, told the videographer, told my parents I was like I'll see you over there, kept running and like I said, man, I was running under eight minute miles at some point, which I could not believe after 50 plus miles, that I had that in me. And my dad ran with me, my brother ran with me, my sister ran with me, my wife, who was pregnant at the time, ran with me, like it was just those special moments that you know they didn't believe it was possible, moments that you know they didn't believe it was possible and I needed to show myself. It was possible and in the process I just learned like I am exactly who I say I am and I always will be exactly who I say I am you know, I'm sure you got tens more moments that you've overcome.
Speaker 2:I'd love to hear a hundred I mean, we all, we all have them, you know. But I I think about what. What stands out most for me is just sticking to your commitment, no matter what, no matter the cost. I remember in my recent you know, 150, it didn't matter if I was going back and forth on a bridge, like if a biker hit me. I'd be like I'll crawl 60 miles if I have to, because I told people this is what we're doing, it's bigger than me that we're giving back to people that really need it. So we're going to execute on our commitments, no matter the cost.
Speaker 2:And it's also interesting you mentioned that 50 plus miles in. You know, you're, you're not really wanting to take nutrition. I remember my friends had to force food down me. I didn't. That was the last thing I wanted to do was eat. And at mile one 50, it was my one 49 to one, 50. It was my fastest mile, just like wow.
Speaker 2:It's amazing what our bodies and minds are capable of. We're, what our bodies and minds are capable of. We're capable of so much more than we believe ourselves to be in certain moments. But I believe, just in general in life, and I believe that's also why it's so important to go out there and get in the arena, test yourself every now and then prove yourself right.
Speaker 2:Just to the way I look at it is the more we put ourselves through these tests and it doesn't always have to be running, because I always make sure I put that disclaimer in there but just the more that we put witness and explore our capability and create the opportunity to help other people do the exact same thing. And that's one of the most beautiful things that I see with endurance and doing these crazy events that we're doing, and can't wait to see more of that from you in the future. Jonathan, I would love to give you the opportunity here to talk through you, talk through the book, but what are some exciting things that you have going on in 2025 that you want people to know about so that they can get more of a taste of what it's like to be inspired by you and all of the resources that you have created to make this year not just this year, but our lives enhanced?
Speaker 1:My man, thank you so much. This was so cool and I appreciate it. You can keep up with Inside the Inspired. It's a podcast interviewing high performers on the mindset blueprint over 160 episodes. At this point, I'm really leaning into quality and bringing the highest quality, most impactful guests that I want to talk to, and every conversation is intended to follow curiosity around what it takes not just to be the best version of yourself, but very much like this, like how to channel optimal performance whether it's a Navy SEAL, an F-16 pilot, a creator with millions of followers, an author who's published millions of copies of their books and learn how to handle the demons, how to handle the hardship, how to find purpose, how to build purpose, how to handle the hardship, how to find purpose, how to build purpose. And on that note, I also released a course recently, the Inspired Action System, a course all about how to build purpose into your life, how to build mental toughness, how to cultivate these different pillars of what I believe creates a purpose-driven life, and so you can check that out. You can follow me on social media at Jonathan Z z cohen. You could also find me on linkedin.
Speaker 1:You'll probably see me commenting on ryan's stuff, just hyping him up because the dude's a beast running hundreds of miles at and dude can run sub three hour marathon on call. He can run a hundred mile race on call, like 200 mile race, if I'm not mistaken, at this point. Right, you know, if you had to run that thing tomorrow, you'd do it. So it's all about being in a community of people that are inspiring one another, looking to lead that impact that we're talking about, and I imagine that if you're listening to this podcast, you're well on your way, but it'd be very cool to connect with you anyway If you're in New York city.
Speaker 1:I'm hosting seminars as well on how to build and train resilience. These are actually for attorneys in specific, who get credit towards their bar admission so they can be in learning how to manage their mental well-being, because it's obviously very hard these days, and would love to connect. Appreciate Ryan for the platform. Can't wait to bring you on inside the Inspired after that 200 mile run so you could keep doing all the good things you're doing. Man, I'm so proud of you. I love it.
Speaker 2:Now, it's customary and thank you for the kind words it's customary to end the podcast with a rapid fire session. So the way this works is I'm going to ask you three questions and the amount of time you have to answer. The question is the amount of time it takes to go up one elevator floor, so not a whole lot of time. And we're going up three floors to go grab lunch somewhere cool in New York City and a new person is going to enter the elevator and they're going to ask you a question and then they're going to get off. So it's one gem, one step, one book. So we get on the elevator, someone hops on, they recognize you, they listen to Inside the Inspired. They say Jonathan, what's one gem that you have, whether it be a quote or a mantra that you live your life by, that I can put in my back pocket or live my life by.
Speaker 1:It's not how you start, it's how you finish.
Speaker 2:That person just jumped off Next person's in. Jonathan, what's one step that I can take today to live a more inspiring life? Be less impressed and more involved.
Speaker 2:And the last one what's one book besides yours that's coming up that people should read in 2025 to enhance their mindsets? The Body Keeps the Score Beautiful. Jonathan, it was awesome having you on board. Folks keep up with Jonathan. His podcast is amazing, very high quality guests and highlighting what we talked about today. When it comes to strengthening your mindset in 2025, look at the evidence that you've already created for yourself and look at how you can prove yourself right day in and day out, so you can live a more inspired life and win today. Thanks so much for tuning in. Bye.
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